Ranks and Money

[Nightingale]

ten or fifteen bucks, which covered the belt and certificate, plus a little left over for sodas (or beer) afterwards at my old school.

new school doesnt' charge at all for testing, but monthly fee is higher.

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by paihequan
How then would you respond to the words that you have paid for your rank?

nuf said...
why don't you just come out and delineate what it is you are saying/getting at... it might speed the conversation along.

Your Brother
John

 

[Damian Mavis]

I paid $350 Canadian to test for 1st
$425 to test for 2nd
$475 to test for 3rd
$550 to test for 4th

The whole process took 13 years, both the time and money is standard in the ITF

I'm curious to know if the people that don't pay anything are all learning in some persons basement or some similar setup?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by paihequan
Interesting. Most of you have shared of your experiences and the fees payable seem reasonable and around similar levels.

How then would you respond to the words that you have paid for your rank?

The Financial cost of a black belt is a couple of bucks. Total cost of materials (belt, fancy cert, shipping) is under $10 US.

The physical/mental/etc costs and benifits can not be measured in $.

Any fool can buy a belt, sew on a few stripes and print out a cert. Or he can buy one from any of the hundreds of belt/cert mills out there. Or he can hook up with a few like minded folks and have the popular mutual promotion party where they each bump the other up a few notches.

What ever. Personally, I think those folks are scum.

I don't have a problem with schools or organizations charging reasonable amounts for tests. They have overhead and record keeping to do to help keep your ranking valid. (Note I -do- have a problem with the practice of charging you $30 for a pennys worth of electrical tape on your belt. Those schools are rip offs)

Anyone can print up a cert, make up a lineage and bury enough stuff to muddy the trail. I think the quality ranks don't require people to be private detectives to check em out.


We all pay for our ranks. The quality folks with the combination of time/sweat/support. The fools with only money.

:asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis
The whole process took 13 years, both the time and money is standard in the ITF

I'm curious to know if the people that don't pay anything are all learning in some persons basement or some similar setup?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

I train under the head of the organization in the home school. From white to black is about 3-5 years, depending on your own aptitude, how often and how hard you train. I don't pay for belt tests until black, and then the rate currently is fair. (About $200 I think)

 

[Aegis]

Originally posted by paihequan
How then would you respond to the words that you have paid for your rank?

Everyone pays for rank. The only thing that varies is the currency. Some people pay large amounts of money and get rank for next to nothing. Others pay very little money, but put in the hours, the sweat and the pain to get to the level they can achieve. The money is just to pay someone to come and acknowledge their new rank.

In the more derrogatory sense of the phrase "paying for rank" (which I assume is the one you were intending to put across), I would say that I haven't. I paid for a good lesson from a high ranking instructor in our style. The fact that he was looking at our technique to see if we met the requirements for the next grade was completely by-the-by.

I would consider "paying for rank" to imply that the chance of failure is negligible. This is not the case in what I do. I have seen quite a large proportion of students failing gradings, usually through a poor "on the day" performance, as students are not allowed to even attempt to grade until they are up to the standard of their next grade.

As I said, I am happy to pay the cost involved in our style, and would pay it just the same if there was no chance of grading, as the opportunity to train with some of the best in our style is too good to miss.

 

[Nightingale]

an interesting question...

if someone fails a test where there is a testing fee, do they have to pay the fee the next time around?

at where I used to train, no. you paid once to cover the cost of your belt (and we got good quality belts) and cert, and then, if you failed (and I saw people fail) you didn't have to pay it next time around.

 

[Aegis]

Within my style there's different ploicies on paying to take a grading a second time. The visijting instructor takes the same amount of money for the grading, but if you failed the last time round, your club may opt to pay for you, especially if you failed through what they consider "bad luck on the day". So depending on the club you train at, you pay once or each time...

Clear as mud eh?

 

[theletch1]

Now THAT's a scary figure! Did many people actually go for it, or was it only the rare few with more money than sense?

Once you hit brown it was one of those "highly suggested" things. You were also "highly suggested" to go to the seminar at least once before attempting to test for black. The upside of the seminar is that the masters of the art were there to teach. Black normally took 4-5 years to reach so anyone who had trained that long had to make the decision to either pay up, stay at brown forever or simply move on to another style.

As for my response to the idea that I've paid for rank, sure I have but I agree whole heartedly with the sentiment that I paid for it not bought it.

 

[SenseiBear]

Originally posted by nightingale8472
an interesting question...

if someone fails a test where there is a testing fee, do they have to pay the fee the next time around?

In our school, you pay for your test. If you fail the test (and I have seen it happen), then you pay for the test next time too. The tests are lengthy, and the small fees don't come close to compensating the panel (ends up buying them dinner after the test).

And as seems to be the consensus, we all pay for our ranks with sweat, blood, pain, and years of work and dedication.

-SB

 

[A.R.K.]

I was never charged for testing in any of the disciplines I trained in. Monthly tuition yes, but not a testing fee.

In the same vain, I do not charge my students a testing fee. I do ask for $2 as this is what the belt costs me. I no longer charge a monthly fee personally either. They pay their money directly to my church where I teach. It goes into the new bldg fund.

:asian:

 

[D.Cobb]

At the school where I train, it costs $50.00 Aust. from white to purple. For brown belts up to approval for 1st Black $75.00.

But then the actual Black Belt Grading, costs $800.00+.

I don't know if it's worth it financially, but I do know I earned my 1st Dan.

--Dave

:asian:

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by D.Cobb
At the school where I train, it costs $50.00 Aust. from white to purple. For brown belts up to approval for 1st Black $75.00.

But then the actual Black Belt Grading, costs $800.00+.

I don't know if it's worth it financially, but I do know I earned my 1st Dan.

--Dave

:asian:

Why such a large leap?

 

[bdparsons]

1st Hapkido kwan:
No additional charge for testing.

2nd Hapkido kwan:
$25 each for 10 gup tests; $100 for dan test

Kenpo:
$50 per kyu test; $100 per dan test

In all the schools I've been a part of, testing fees have been one time only. If a student failed a test they were not charged to test again, although a mandantory waiting time to retest was enforced.

Respects,
Bill Parsons

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by bdparsons


$50 per kyu test; $100 per dan test

In all the schools I've been a part of, testing fees have been one time only. If a student failed a test they were not charged to test again, although a mandantory waiting time to retest was enforced.

Respects,
Bill Parsons

I think that would be a really fair standard to go by. Especially if the testing is done on a non-class day like it should be. I think that the Dojo should be able to put a couple of dollars in its pocket for something that is not a part of the regular classtime.

Testing every 2 months is another topic.

I've seen classes that "some" of the kids are testing during class time and the rest of the kids just watched during "their" classtime which they "paid" for.



:asian:

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by Seig
Why such a large leap?

The price covers the cost of the grading, a rank specific embroidered uniform, a rather fancy framed certificate and a gold medallion/ pendant thingy.

--Dave

:asian:

 

[don bohrer]

$800.00+

Oh man! I thought $275 was steep.

 

[redfang]

No testing fees where I train. Buying a belt when earned is optional, $5.00. I do pay regular class time when I test, as testing is conducted during individual instruction.

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by don bohrer
$800.00+

Oh man! I thought $275 was steep.

How is this for steep?

$72.50 per Month
$110.00 per Year Membership.
total $980.00

add to this the price of personal equipment and it gets to be very steep.

And then if you are one of the lucky ones like me, and are included in the Black Belt Club, by invitation only, you only get charged membership once every 3 years.
You might think that that is a good thing, but you get charged a higher monthly fee for the privelidge(sp?), $82.50 which comes to a whopping $990.00 per year.
Plus you have to buy the Black Belt Club uniform $140.00,
I shouldn't have started this post, I didn't realise how much I was being screwed for. AAARRRGGHHH!!!!

--Dave

 

[theletch1]

a rank specific embroidered uniform,

I know that when I reach shodan in aikido I'll have to buy hakama but it doesn't change from rank to rank in the dan level. Is this the type of thing you're talking about or does the entire uniform change from rank to rank?