Maybe need to change your desire to always be right first
Actual fighters are always right, it is the choices that count.
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Maybe need to change your desire to always be right first
I did address that "above the shoulder" at a couple of points. If you don't punch very high or very far (or, particularly, both), then the elbow can easily stay below the shoulder. I can see how by only punching from a near distance you'd be able to keep your elbow below your shoulder even when striking to the head of someone your own size. If they are significantly taller, you'd have to abandon hitting the head, but that's doable.
As for not ascending from the horizontal plane, when I see an example of an actual punch, I'll discuss that further. The "experiment" is not a punch - just a movement of the arm purposely designed to keep the elbow down. It lacks anything approaching punching power.
You've given nothing to show that it's at all possible given the geometry. You just keep saying the same thing over and over, without providing any evidence
That's VT!
No you wouldn't have to abandon hitting the head.
I'm guessing you have not spent any time attampting to develop punching power in this way, so why comment?
Yeah, I'm trying it sitting here at my desk and it seems to work as you describe it. I just wish you could have explained it so clearly at the beginning rather than getting involved in that long back and forth with the other guys. It was frustrating to read, even as a bystander.
Elbow over shoulder as NI is rising elbow. Elbow pops up = mistake, not VT
it kinda kills me that anyone is saying "I can't believe this is a VT forum" when this is a rule for punching period as it results in a less efficient transfer of power for any punch.
Take it up with Nobody Important who suggested that wing chun punches are done this way.
I didn't interpret it that way. I saw him saying, in a more brief version than I admittedly, that there are times when you have to and that the system permits this, even if it is not optimal.
Nobody Important said:Doesn't matter if you punch up or down. To use urban slang, the wagina of the elbow will always come up to align the bones of the arm. It's a hinge joint. Unless their elbow is opposite of every other human, it's impossible for it to remain.
At high level it will be wrist at highest point and shoulder at lowest. At mid let all three will be same height and at low level shoulder will be highest and wrist at lowest.
You interpreted wrong, presumably due to bias and inability to ever admit error
This is what he said:
NI is saying explicitly that the elbow pops up in the wing chun punch, and that triangle not maintained, which is crazy from the point of view any kind of wing chun
There he is speaking only about how the elbow operates as a hinge joint
That quote doesn't say "WC/VT does this, it says "this is how an elbow works. That's it and nothing more. Unless you can produce something that changes the context that is how I read that from the initial post.
Juany said:Maybe the fact is missed that if you are average height striking someone in the face of similar height, your wrist will be higher than the shoulder, because well the head is higher than the shoulder, is somehow missed? Either that or he doesn't think WC takes head shots
Nobody Important said:Doesn't matter if you punch up or down.To use urban slang, the wagina of the elbow will always come up to align the bones of the arm. It's a hinge joint. Unless their elbow is opposite of every other human, it's impossible for it to remain.
At high level it will be wrist at highest point and shoulder at lowest. At mid let all three will be same height
I posted the photo I posted to clarify the circumstance when such a punch is engaged, since my description of the 5' female I used to work with was ignored.. Ergo you say, in a fight for your life, if the size difference between those two is the fact, your don't punch above the shoulder? You in essence say "nope, not hitting the target that will have the most effect to save my life because...well because." There is no adaption to circumstance, to the size of your opponent?Nope, he is specifically talking about popping up the elbow and flattening the triangle in wing chun in answer to you talking about wing chun, i.e. complete nonsense.
His post quotes yours below:
It is also frustrating to be trolled on a VT forum by people who don't do VT
The remark was in the context of how the arm operates as Juany said. It was a generalization about the action of punching. At no point did I ever stress VT punching specifically. It was used to illustrate the mechanics of the arm in reference to striking at different levels of height with full extension. Specifically, it was about a high level inner gate strike, that without full extension of the arm, wouldn't work. The idea that full extension of WC punches was commonplace in YCWWC, was superimposed by you & LFJ as a point of contention to normal WC punching. I never said it was. I also stated several times that the inner gate strike could be performed with other actions, such as, Biu Sau or yes, even Faak Sau, both of which in YCWWC use full extension of the arm with the elbow higher than shoulder. The discussion was never relegated on my part to the exclusive use of your VT punch. I don't know WSLVT, so how could I reference your punching method. I only used PB and WSL images to illustrate, from a YCWWC point of view, how these same generalized mechanics of the arm are present, not in the manner of how you in WSLVT use them. And for the record, at :15 in the PB video I still believe it to be a straight punch. Now you can argue about elbow position as giving insight into it being a Faak Sau, but the same action would apply to Sat Sau, Biu Sau or even a Pin Jeung. The elbow position and in out action would still be the same, without a hand present to definitively make that decision is conjecture in my opinion. If you say it is a Faak Sau then OK, but I fail how you can prove it without a shadow of a doubt based on an elbow position that is present in other technuques, the hand shape would be absolute confirmation. Snce it isn't there I'm left to form my own opinion based on what I observe & understand.Nope, he is specifically talking about popping up the elbow and flattening the triangle in wing chun in answer to you talking about wing chun, i.e. complete nonsense.
His post quotes yours below:
This answer about WC is completely wrong on all counts.
Elbow popped up to align arm bones in wing chun punch? No
High level punch will have shoulder at lowest point? No
Mid level punch shoulder, elbow and wrist will be on same level? No
100% nonsense, not a WC practitioner
Jeezlouise! Juany just cannot stand to be wrong, can he?! What an ego. Just drop it already.
The idea that full extension of WC punches was commonplace in YCWWC, was superimposed by you & LFJ as a point of contention to normal WC punching.
It was used to illustrate the mechanics of the arm in reference to striking at different levels of height with full extension. Specifically, it was about a high level inner gate strike, that without full extension of the arm, wouldn't work.
The elbow position and in out action would still be the same, without a hand present to definitively make that decision is conjecture in my opinion.
If you say it is a Faak Sau then OK, but I fail how you can prove it without a shadow of a doubt based on an elbow position that is present in other technuques, the hand shape would be absolute confirmation. Snce it isn't there I'm left to form my own opinion based on what I observe & understand.
The video I linked shows how to do a "standard" WC straight punch. As far as I can recall the action of the punch (in terms of arm movement) is consistent across all the YM lineages. There are differences in terms of preferred stance, but the "punch" itself is the same.
You and I both know this is blatant projection.