Contradictions In The Martial Arts

[PhotonGuy]

That’s the tone part. I don’t see any implication in the original story that it was actually a suggestion. He was pointing out the color of the belt shouldn’t be the emphasis - it’s the work behind it that matters.

Let's say in school a student asks their teacher what they need to do to get an A in the class. The teacher responds by saying the grade shouldn't be the emphasis, it's the work behind it that matters. Would that be an appropriate response from the teacher?

 

[PhotonGuy]

I have no idea what's taught in high school these days. Back in my day, other than English and math, nothing of any actual use was taught to prepare students for their life after their school years.

When I was in high school we had drivers ed, but they didn't teach us how to change tires.

 

[Steve]

When I was in high school we had drivers ed, but they didn't teach us how to change tires.

Changing tires was (and I believe still is) taught in auto shop, where the school districts have qualified teachers and the means to teach it.

But jokes on them, because many late model cars don't come with a spare tire. Or a clutch... and EVs don't even have a transmission to put fluid into... we're downright coddling these kids.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Schools have always taught academics. That's what schools are for. But ever since social media, people are now demanding that schools teach life skills. Either

- they're parents who are too lazy to do their jobs as parents, or
- they're people who are tired of feeling inferior those who graduated from the high school that they dropped out of, and are using their ability to change their own oil to one-up them.

 

[Buka]

Some real crotchety older generation energy in this thread right now.

What do you have against crotchety you young punk, you?

 

[Buka]

My High School experiences, as well as my first three years of college experience, were lots of fun.

Unfortunately, the administrations in both did not have clue one about what they were doing. But it sure was interesting.

 

[Bayroum]

I sometimes notice that there are big contradictions in the martial arts. For instance, and I've discussed this before, how they will say that being a first degree black belt doesn't mean you're a master or even an expert it just means you're a serious beginner, but then they make it so hard to get that you practically have to be a master to get it. Sounds very contradictory to me.

I think the idea behind this is that you NEVER stop being a beginner and therefore a learner.

Obviously a 1st dan black belt would usually have more experience and should have more skill than a yellow belt in this specific system, but a 1st dan is a beginner to lets say a 10th dan in Karate.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I can’t believe no one is teaching kids to drive a double clutch. Heck, there was a millennial that didn’t even know how to place a collect call at a public phone. What is this world coming to?

People have always whinged about young adults. Here's proof

Older people love to gripe about the entitled, lazy millennial generation. But it's nothing new – by delving into the archives, we found plenty of parallels stretching back 2,000 years

www.bbc.com

Next, you’ll tell me they can’t dial a rotary phone.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Let's say in school a student asks their teacher what they need to do to get an A in the class. The teacher responds by saying the grade shouldn't be the emphasis, it's the work behind it that matters. Would that be an appropriate response from the teacher?

It depends on the class, the teacher, and the student.

 

[Steve]

Next, you’ll tell me they can’t dial a rotary phone.

 

[Steve]

It depends on the class, the teacher, and the student.

I get what you’re saying, and it sounds reasonable. But Having had three kids through school, I can tell you with absolute certainty that every teacher makes it very, very clear what you need to do for an A. They aren’t coy at all about it. They also make it clear to any parent who cares to attend the orientation.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I get what you’re saying, and it sounds reasonable. But Having had three kids through school, I can tell you with absolute certainty that every teacher makes it very, very clear what you need to do for an A. They aren’t coy at all about it. They also make it clear to any parent who cares to attend the orientation.

And in most situations, that’s what you’d both want and expect. Mostly, I was poking at the lack of equivalence between the situations being compared. If someone asked what they needed to do to get their degree, there are certainly circumstances where the answer should be the list of requirements, and situations where the answer is more about the work to be done, and still other situations where the answer probably should point out the asker is getting far ahead of what they need to work on.

 

[Earl Weiss]

........................ but then they make it so hard to get that you practically have to be a master to get it.

I don't think it is difficult to get black belt. In fact I agree with an instructor that used to say: If you can feed yourself with silverware and ride a bicycle you can become a Black Belt. All the rest is just time and effort.

 

[Steve]

And in most situations, that’s what you’d both want and expect. Mostly, I was poking at the lack of equivalence between the situations being compared. If someone asked what they needed to do to get their degree, there are certainly circumstances where the answer should be the list of requirements, and situations where the answer is more about the work to be done, and still other situations where the answer probably should point out the asker is getting far ahead of what they need to work on.

I understand. But I also understand what @PhotonGuy is trying to say. And I think you're both right in different contexts. If the question is, even at a university, "What do I need to do to get an A?" there's some equivalence to "What do I need to do to get a black belt?"

Ultimately, i think some folks just like to bust @PhotonGuy 's balls a little, and that's whatever. But his point isn't that wild.

 

[drop bear]

Changing tires was (and I believe still is) taught in auto shop, where the school districts have qualified teachers and the means to teach it.

But jokes on them, because many late model cars don't come with a spare tire. Or a clutch... and EVs don't even have a transmission to put fluid into... we're downright coddling these kids.

I was getting mine fixed at the shop. And he quoted a thousand dollars for run flats.

I would just put up with the spare tire.

 

[wolfeyes2323]

I sometimes notice that there are big contradictions in the martial arts. For instance, and I've discussed this before, how they will say that being a first degree black belt doesn't mean you're a master or even an expert it just means you're a serious beginner, but then they make it so hard to get that you practically have to be a master to get it. Sounds very contradictory to me.

if we want to be competent at any physical art it takes years of coaching , practice, sweat , commitment , and sacrifice. Football, Hockey , Baseball, Crossfit, Cycling , you name it, want to be competent and of competitive caliber , it is a life style that goes far beyond, showing up for class a few times a week for a few hours. We are retraining and disciplining body, mind, breathing, no one is making it harder than it needs to be, It is just hard and thats what it takes.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

im humble and i brag too when you get your 1st Degree black its like a white belt again but this time we have moe knowledge of the art and this begins your black bet journey and its get harder and harder as you level up o each belt im a 1st Brown at american kenpo karate one i get my black belt my journey starts again and again

 

[Mider]

I sometimes notice that there are big contradictions in the martial arts. For instance, and I've discussed this before, how they will say that being a first degree black belt doesn't mean you're a master or even an expert it just means you're a serious beginner, but then they make it so hard to get that you practically have to be a master to get it. Sounds very contradictory to me.

Who says that? I’ve heard it just means you’re kinda starting over and ready to learn more

 

[HighKick]

Who says that? I’ve heard it just means you’re kinda starting over and ready to l

I sometimes notice that there are big contradictions in the martial arts. For instance, and I've discussed this before, how they will say that being a first degree black belt doesn't mean you're a master or even an expert it just means you're a serious beginner, but then they make it so hard to get that you practically have to be a master to get it. Sounds very contradictory to me.

I don't see any contradiction. I think it speaks to the time and commitment it takes and the resultant quality it produces. I like comparing it to a college degree. There is an order to things, Associates, Bachelors, Masters, Doctorate. There is really no difference when getting a black belt (and beyond). And just how the college journey takes longer for some and shorter for others, you see the same paths in the martial arts. What makes this even more extraordinary to me it that learning a martial art is totally voluntary for most, with no expectation of financial payback which is very different from most people going to college.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Here's what I'm seeing: "Black belt is the beginning" or "new beginning," blah, blah. It has been said many times, explained, rephrased, clarified, etc. And depending on how it's said and who said it, the person is attracts agreement, praise, ridicule, correction, or otherwise being talked down to. So while I've been participating in this thread, I've avoided making statements on shodans being beginners or whatever.

At the end of the day, any and all statements to that effect; it's probably best that I proceed as if I had never heard anyone say those things.