Contradictions In The Martial Arts

[isshinryuronin]

Pat Morita's character is based on the founder of Goju Ru, but even moreso this dude, his stunt double.

Fumio Demura - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

They are legion. I myself have a small bonsai.

Demura Sensei was one of the greats. His black belt promotions are worth noting. According to the link above: Ist degree in 1956 after 5 years of hard training. 15 more years to get 5th. Another 15 for 7th.
(That's 35 years.) Another 19 for 9th. That's 54 years to reach the top. How different from many schools/systems in recent times where belts come so quickly and degrees are not always an indicator of knowledge or skill. Believe me, his skills were excellent in both karate and kobudo. I had the pleasure of meeting him in the mid 70's when he and my sensei, Bob Ozman, worked on a movie together. Both were widely respected Karate pioneers.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Demura Sensei was one of the greats. His black belt promotions are worth noting. According to the link above: Ist degree in 1956 after 5 years of hard training. 15 more years to get 5th. Another 15 for 7th.
(That's 35 years.) Another 19 for 9th. That's 54 years to reach the top. How different from many schools/systems in recent times where belts come so quickly and degrees are not always an indicator of knowledge or skill. Believe me, his skills were excellent in both karate and kobudo. I had the pleasure of meeting him in the mid 70's when he and my sensei, Bob Ozman, worked on a movie together. Both were widely respected Karate pioneers.

You know, I had no idea he just died a couple months ago.

How do you peel 1,000 potatoes?

Demura folded 5,000 cranes after suffering a major brain injury.

The real Mr. Miyagi folds 5,000 origami cranes to symbolize healing

At first, Sensei Fumio Demura couldn't fold a single crane. But over time, he worked hard to fold over 5,000 cranes as a part of recovering from great adversity.

abc7.com

 

[PhotonGuy]

At shodan you have learned what is required practice to enable you to progress and develop on your own. A teacher can only show you what to practice and teach you how to practice, (shodan), after that its up to you to add years of practice.

To some extent I would have to agree although just because you've made shodan doesn't mean that you can't learn anything more from your instructor, if that were the case everybody would quit once they make shodan, at least they would quit taking lessons from whatever instructor they made shodan under.

There are of course higher ranks beyond shodan and earning those ranks would require learning more stuff from your instructor, but with the martial arts as you get more and more advanced you do start making your own discoveries. As in the movie The Karate Kid III where Miyagi explains to Daniel that the roots come from Miyagi but that the karate itself comes from inside Daniel and that eventually Daniel will do it his own way. Once you make shodan, the way I see it, you really start making your own self discoveries.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Although this isn't exactly what PhotonGuy said, it's close enough.

More or less, see post #203.

 

[Balrog]

I sometimes notice that there are big contradictions in the martial arts. For instance, and I've discussed this before, how they will say that being a first degree black belt doesn't mean you're a master or even an expert it just means you're a serious beginner, but then they make it so hard to get that you practically have to be a master to get it. Sounds very contradictory to me.

Not really. Was it easy to graduate from high school, or did you have to work to pull your grades?

All 1st Degree means is that you have satisfactorily presented the required basics for your style to qualified instructors who agreed that you did so. Now, having learned the basics, it's time to start learning the art, and that will take you the rest of your life.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

At shodan you have learned what is required practice to enable you to progress and develop on your own. A teacher can only show you what to practice and teach you how to practice, (shodan), after that its up to you to add years of practice.

In some systems, that’s definitely the case. There are also definitely systems that fall to either side of that.

 

[Buka]

Maybe belts should be made out of licorice. It would be a lot more fun.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Not really. Was it easy to graduate from high school, or did you have to work to pull your grades?

Getting through high school wasn't always easy but sometimes it was, relatively speaking. For instance, my senior year was very easy compared to my junior year, which was really hard.

If the junior year is equivalent to nikyu and the senior year is equivalent to ikkyu then going from ikkyu to first degree black belt, which in this analogy would be equivalent to getting a high school diploma, would be a breeze, but going from nikyu to ikkyu would be really hard, speaking from my own experience with high school.

All 1st Degree means is that you have satisfactorily presented the required basics for your style to qualified instructors who agreed that you did so. Now, having learned the basics, it's time to start learning the art, and that will take you the rest of your life.

True to a certain extent although different instructors have different standards. Some instructors might require you to present more than just the basics to get a black belt and some instructors might require less, but you're right in the sense that learning the art will take you the rest of your life, no matter how much you know and no matter what your rank or skill level is, as there is always more to learn and you can always get better.

 

[HighKick]

Maybe belts should be made out of licorice. It would be a lot more fun.

Licorice, just eew.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Was it easy to graduate from high school

Yes. And from the number of people who cannot compose a coherent and grammatically correct sentence, make change without a computer, or change a flat tire, I have to assume it still is.

 

[Buka]

Yes. And from the number of people who cannot compose a coherent and grammatically correct sentence, make change without a computer, or change a flat tire, I have to assume it still is.

Although, I'm not actually sure I know how to change a tire anymore. I'm used to an actual tire as a spare, not these little wheelbarrow tire thingies they have for a spare these days. And I'm used to a real jack to raise the car. Not the ridiculous, b.s. jacks they have now.

I haven't had to change a tire in twenty years (probably should've written that, on the off chance of awakening automotive Karma)
So, I dunno'.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Although, I'm not actually sure I know how to change a tire anymore. I'm used to an actual tire as a spare, not these little wheelbarrow tire thingies they have for a spare these days. And I'm used to a real jack to raise the car. Not the ridiculous, b.s. jacks they have now.

Same way you change any other tire.

I haven't had to change a tire in twenty years (probably should've written that, on the off chance of awakening automotive Karma)
So, I dunno'.

I think the frequency with which such skills are needed may well be less these days. But it's still sort of sad when a supposed adult doesn't know how to check or add oil, or the difference between your and you're.

 

[Buka]

Same way you change any other tire.

I think the frequency with which such skills are needed may well be less these days. But it's still sort of sad when a supposed adult doesn't know how to check or add oil, or the difference between your and you're.

As a guy who never owned a new car until six years ago, I could always check and add oil with my eyes closed. And many of my old ship boxes had a case of oil in the trunk. You know, right next to a REAL spare tire.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Yes. And from the number of people who cannot compose a coherent and grammatically correct sentence, make change without a computer, or change a flat tire, I have to assume it still is.

Depends what high school they're graduating from.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Although, I'm not actually sure I know how to change a tire anymore. I'm used to an actual tire as a spare, not these little wheelbarrow tire thingies they have for a spare these days. And I'm used to a real jack to raise the car. Not the ridiculous, b.s. jacks they have now.

I haven't had to change a tire in twenty years (probably should've written that, on the off chance of awakening automotive Karma)
So, I dunno'.

Well they don't teach tire changing in high school.

 

[Buka]

Well they don't teach tire changing in high school.

I have no idea what's taught in high school these days. Back in my day, other than English and math, nothing of any actual use was taught to prepare students for their life after their school years.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I have no idea what's taught in high school these days. Back in my day, other than English and math, nothing of any actual use was taught to prepare students for their life after their school years.

I learned where China, Egypt and the Mississippi River are. How many high school grads can do that today? I doubt less than 20% would be able to ID them on a map.

But more importantly, aside from learning the basics of our world and how to read and write, I learned how to study, that effort = success, and that you have to earn your grade. Parents and teachers had expectations that we were required to meet or else have some sort of consequences. All good lessons that helped me in life and MA as well.

 

[Steve]

Some real crotchety older generation energy in this thread right now.

 

[_Simon_]

Some real crotchety older generation energy in this thread right now.

What in the Sam heck is this curmudgeonry!!

 

[Steve]

What in the Sam heck is this curmudgeonry!!

I can’t believe no one is teaching kids to drive a double clutch. Heck, there was a millennial that didn’t even know how to place a collect call at a public phone. What is this world coming to?

People have always whinged about young adults. Here's proof

Older people love to gripe about the entitled, lazy millennial generation. But it's nothing new – by delving into the archives, we found plenty of parallels stretching back 2,000 years

www.bbc.com