Ha ha, you assign homework. That would work. So you have more time in class.
"Common" Moves Not Found in Forms
- Thread starter isshinryuronin
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I did not name you. Maybe you are so good that you can beat them and no need to learn.
I would watch, as much as it hurt my feelings. You think I don't feel bitter, I am in the same boat. I learn from older days and will get my butt kicked by MMA. I am open enough to admit that and willing to look and see what I can learn.
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Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Don't get too defensive, just a debate.
Yes, we are not in the same boat, you are the expert, I am just middle of the road. I just know from life that I should have an open mind what if others have better method that I can benefit if I just put my ego aside and try to be humble and at least watch.
You've certainly displayed an open mind here, when people have pointed out that what you call "useless" movement in forms really isn't.
My understanding you are TKD instructor, I would like to see videos of fights that use the traditional TKD punching from arms tuck in under the shoulder and big horse stance like this video:You've certainly displayed an open mind here, when people have pointed out that what you call "useless" movement in forms really isn't.
I know the kicks are useful, I am talking about the way the punches and the way of blocking. I would like to see a video of fights that punches and block like this. These are the forms I learn(not all the way to 8, but at least 3 or 4).
I know TKD have older forms we learned also, those have even deeper horse stance, not like Tae Guk that stand upright. I like to see those deep stance in real fights.
isshinryuronin
Senior Master
Most of your problem is thinking you are at this "middle of the road" level in knowledge and understanding when you actually have just stepped off the curb. The road is much longer than you realize. You don't know what you don't know - a situation that will hinder you from real learning. You are judging the size of the iceberg by only considering the tip that's visible, not realizing the vast majority of it is much deeper than you can see.
Most of the forms shown in your video are based on the Shotokan Heian forms, which, in turn, were based on the Okinawan Pinan forms, developed by Itosu around 1900 for teaching karate to the general public. (One of his main teachers was Matsumura, a bodyguard for the Okinawan king, which, I think, gives him some street cred.) As karate became more targeted as exercise and sport, it progressively became more stylized during each of these stages.
As a result, the original intent of these forms has become obscured, yet the ability to recapture the original application still exists, even in the thrice removed Korean version - if one becomes a true student and studies the historical evolution of the forms. There is a very good reason the forms show the used hand returning to a chambered position, but at your beginner level, be content to just work on the basics.
I do. Unfortunately, many students don't dedicate any real time to it.
But it's a lot more important to practice important stuffs in class as you can pair them up and go through drills, one or two step sparring. You don't need partners for forms.
Yet, I maybe just in entry level that cannot appreciate what encapsulated in the form. I just look at what works in the fighting competitions like UFC, Bellator etc. For beginners and ignorant people, we look for who's butt is being kicked and who's kicking butt. We really don't understand all the deeper stuff as we just bare stepped off the curb.
Maybe it more advanced philosophic level, winning is losing, or losing is winning. There's a deeper lesson to learn.
They didn't, which is why certain kata and forms are recognized as being of a certain lineage. A teacher gains new understanding and they use that and ultimately becomes known for creating a variation. I know in CMA a form will have the same name but different variations. Often times that variation is identified by lineage. Chinese, Vietnamese, European, and American Jow Ga will all have things that are different that are based on that teacher's understanding
Yes we have grappling in our school, but it's stand up grappling mostly. In the past I posted videos of me taking people to the ground during light sparring. We have some ground grappling but not much. The main concept of CMA grappling is to take your opponent down and remain standing. The concept of BJJ is to take the grappling to the ground. BJJ has stand up take down techniques, but you'll find the majority of them on the ground.
Not really. For example, when Covid hit, I started to see a lot of BJJ schools develop solo drills and flow drills. When people watch their videos they will most likely follow the same order that's in the drill. That's no different than Kata.
When I look at this video, the first thing that comes to my mind is that you can't fight like this.
The low horse stance that you are talking about is used for grappling. I pretty much beat that into the dirt 24/7 and at every opportunity I get. I would tell this to anyone and have (and accidentally offended a sifu in the process). But I stand by what I've been able to do when using it during sparring and how that same concept of a low stance is used in other grappling arts. The only different between striking low stance and grappling low stance, is that I'm striking from the low stance.
The low horse stance is the only low stance that I know that allows me to punch, kick, and grapple from. But it's burns up leg energy like crazy and it's less mobile than higher stances. So with those downsides, it will allow you effectively deal with grappling and give you options that your opponent will not have when grappling.
Take this position when using a low stance from CMA, Korean, Japanese, or any other striking are with a low stance and that opponent is going to get punched in the faced, kicked, elbowed, or may get a knee to the face. T
The reason you don't see it in a lot of fighting is because there is a really huge misunderstanding of how to use it in a fight. There is an assumption that this is what fighting from horse stance looks like, and it's not. Horse stance is mobile. When in horse stance and facing your opponent, your posture will not look like this. But so many people keep saying that they want to see people fight like this and Martial artist keep saying, that's now how you use horse stance to fight.
So if you are expecting this, then stop expecting it. This is the incorrect way to fight from a horse stance.
You agree nobody punch like in the last picture, why forms have so many of that?
I totally understand about low stance for grappling, I don't quite agree you should punch at low stance. Maybe it's for you, for other people like me, it's too slow to move and I am short enough already, staying low does NOT help me. Like I said, I spend a lot of time punching high that is a whole lot more difficult. I want the head, I don't want the opponent relax thinking that his head is safe.
I do agree with using low stance to train the legs. BUT, I do it differently. I actually put it in my weight training session(vs I call MA aerobics). Instead of doing old forms, I actually "Walk" at low stance with front thigh close to 90deg flat(not quite) and walk around the house for 7 1/2 minutes non stop, no break. Not like doing forms you have breaks in between doing kicks and other stuffs. Maybe you guys are in better shape and it's easy for you. I can tell you it is HARD for me. I do that 2 times a week, this not only test the strength and endurance, it also challenge the balance also. I am sure I get better result with less time. Even I am retired, I am very busy. I have other projects that I am working on like designing extreme high end audio power amps, learning Python programming that I promised my grand daughter to teach her. I just complete the whole book on C++ programming. I cannot afford to do things that is not efficient.
I do take a lot of your advice. I started my exercise, I am practicing front kick with heel. I sure can kick higher without the ball of the foot sliding up the bag when kicking high. Let me work on it for a month or so and see. I am still doing slow and kick light. thanks.
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Have you heard about SOM and DSOM? Before I retired, I was in the IBM SOM and DSOM development team.
In computing, the System Object Model ( SOM) is an object-oriented shared library system developed by IBM. DSOM, a distributed version based on CORBA, allowed objects on different computers to communicate. SOM defines an interface between programs, or between libraries and programs,...
mograph
Master of Arts
"Learn grammar you must! Save you it can!"
But seriously, Yoda's speech pattern was originally derived from Japanese, which tends to end sentences with the verb.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Know it was based on japanese I did not.
No, I am not into programming like you. My trade is analog and RF electronics. I completely gave up programming since the 80s. This is really exercise for the old brain. Almost two years ago, I started C++ only because my older grandson (whose a CS major in college) said he need some motivation. I said how about grandpa nipping on his heels?!!! So I picked up C++ out of the blue. I also believe in exercising the mind like I do weights and aerobics.
I know C++ is OOP. I actually wrote a program that store people's name, address, phone number and email address. The program input info, sort by Last and first names and store in a separate file. The info will not be destroyed if I exit the program. It was a completely modular design, the main program call different modules to do input, sorting, r/w to file and all that. Even it's a small program, it can be expanded easily by keep adding modules to add different functions. I gave that to my grandson to show off!!!
There's nothing good getting old, I have to spend time exercising the body and mind. It's like you don't use it, you lose it. I can feel I am going down hill both physically and mentally. I make mistake in everyday life that I won't in just 7 or 8 years ago. I remember my former company called me up in 2015 to contract with them when they decided to design the next gen machine. I worked for a year and half designing it. They even commented I did not lose a beat after retired for 10 years. I won't dare to accept any offers even if they call me again. I don't want to ruin my reputation!!! Now I just design very high end hifi power amps at home as a hobby. I don't have to answer to anyone.
Lose a lot of strength also. As an example, I could breeze through dips with 45lbs weight plate hanging on me back in the days. Now I only use 10lbs to do 3 sets of 15. I am going to try 20lbs this week and see how many I can do!!!
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