Claims on the Internet.

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by A.R.K.
Y1, ...

And some here downplay ability as though it is a secondary consideration. I feel it should be first and foremost. You are at X rank in Yiliquan [sorry I don't remember what that is]. You are at X rank because your instructor [Chufeng, Yilisifu?] feels you have earned that. Who is anyone to come along and give you grief over it? I don't know if you belong to an organization that 'recognizes' you at X rank...and to me it doesn't matter if you do or don't. Your instructor is good enough for me.

I am a Level 2 Senior in Yiliquan. I hold no other ranks or grades in any other arts. What does Level 2 Senior mean? Well, I get a spiffy looking sash for one...

There are 13 Junior grades, 5 Senior grades and 3 Master grades in Yiliquan. So, technically, I am better than half way to the top, but that also means I am less than 1/4 of the way to knowing what the heck I'm doing...

My alleged rank means precisely "Richard" to anyone outside Yiliquan, since our structure doesn't directly relate to the standard kyu/dan system. Heck, as far as I know, my alleged rank doesn't mean diddly to the folks in Yiliquan! :lol: And ultimately, the only reason I ever tested for Level 1 Senior was so I wouldn't have to worry about testing ever again... (I was done with it - except Sifu doesn't care if you think you are done or not!)

Grandmaster Yuri Kostrov was impressed enough to give me an honorary Dan in his style. Didn't buy it...he honored me with it. Hopefully that would say something???

I have had rank offered to me twice. Once because the person thought I deserved it, once because the other person wanted rank in Yili in exchange. I avoided dealing with the first situation because I had/have great respect for the person, but really didn't feel I deserved the rank (even though I was informally tested to that grade). The second situation I avoided because all the other person really wanted to do was to have me hand him rank in Yiliquan (which would only happen over my dead body).

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Disco]

Your assessment of TKD I'm ashamed to say is correct. The truely painful part is when I started 20yrs ago it wasen't like that. During that time, I have witnessed the total (in my opinion) degradation of a style of Martial Arts that used to be looked on with respect. When the older Masters that originally came to this country back in 70's retired or passed on, the younger Masters that took over just went after the money. Lots of kids, lots of tournaments, lots of selling things at tournaments and lots of charging big money for a piece of paper.

The really bigger shame is that a lot of that greed and mindset has spread through out the Martial Arts world.
:asian:

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by akja
So when is EVERYBODY ELSE going to scan their certificates and POST them!!! So many of you all have given advice on how to do it!!

Heres the rest of my "old certs." from The International Zen Martial Arts Federation of North America.

Sorry about the picture quality and the ugly guy in front of them

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Disco
Your assessment of TKD I'm ashamed to say is correct. The truely painful part is when I started 20yrs ago it wasen't like that. During that time, I have witnessed the total (in my opinion) degradation of a style of Martial Arts that used to be looked on with respect. When the older Masters that originally came to this country back in 70's retired or passed on, the younger Masters that took over just went after the money. Lots of kids, lots of tournaments, lots of selling things at tournaments and lots of charging big money for a piece of paper.

The really bigger shame is that a lot of that greed and mindset has spread through out the Martial Arts world.
:asian:

lots of forms
lots of liberals
lots of systematic patterns
lots of flashiness

Lots of liberals is a big thing. Unlike something like wrestling, where full speed does not really "cause damage" as the liberals say (doesn't make sense to me) but in grappling as in a submission move, you can stop before they are hurt. TKD is a hard art that has to be practiced full speed, and full speed hurts. I don't make sense of the situation, because anything combative in full speed hurts but hey, it's liberals... Most liberals supported the idea of licensing "deadly weapons" aka "black belts".

Other than that, poomsae competitions? WTF? What's next, who has the loudest "Kiyaaaaaaaaaaaapppppp" or "battle cry"

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Rich -

I think that, in regards to FMA in general, and the farce after the death of GM Presas in particular, yours is an example of what happens when legitimate grading is given without sufficient documentation to support it (it isn't a question of its authenticity, only a question of supporting after GM Presas' untimely passing). I doubt that anyone directly connected to GM Presas that has no interest in the political squabbling would really question your rank or skills... I know I wouldn't. But yours isn't really the posterchild of MA rank claims that we have been speaking about... You aren't running around claiming to be the Great Grandmaster of Modern Arnis (that is someone else from what I have heard... ).

...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

Ah, but you see I do have teh certificates, and at least one if not all of my test(s) on one video tape or another. All were before GM R Presas and other Masteres of the art. If I cared a lot I could go shove it down people's throats. Since I only care a little, I just comment about it.

Yet to be serious here, it is ok to be a fraud at 4th degree but not at 6th? or 8th? Where is the line drawn? Just curious

:asian:

 

[Disco]

lots of forms
lots of liberals
lots of systematic patterns
lots of flashiness

Lots of liberals is a big thing. Unlike something like wrestling, where full speed does not really "cause damage" as the liberals say (doesn't make sense to me) but in grappling as in a submission move, you can stop before they are hurt. TKD is a hard art that has to be practiced full speed, and full speed hurts. I don't make sense of the situation, because anything combative in full speed hurts but hey, it's liberals... Most liberals supported the idea of licensing "deadly weapons" aka "black belts".

Other than that, poomsae competitions? WTF? What's next, who has the loudest "Kiyaaaaaaaaaaaapppppp" or "battle cry"


Has the perscription run out?

 

[Jeff Leader]

The WMAA recognizes Mr. Parsons' rank (Lakan Tatlo), even though he isn't one of our members.

His having been promoted by Prof. Presas is good enough for us.

-Jeff Leader
Chair, WMAA Advisory Board

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by Jeff Leader
The WMAA recognizes Mr. Parsons' rank (Lakan Tatlo), even though he isn't one of our members.

His having been promoted by Prof. Presas is good enough for us.

-Jeff Leader
Chair, WMAA Advisory Board

For those of us not familiar, would you please explain what that rank means.

 

[Don Roley]

Originally posted by A.R.K.
And some here downplay ability as though it is a secondary consideration. I feel it should be first and foremost.

I do not see anyone down playing ability. But there is a problem is just going with ability as a person claims it.

I think the problem is that claims of ability still kind of fall under the problems of "claims on the internet" which is the subject of this thread. (At least nominally. ) Everyone can be a experienced street fighter, grizzled cop or ancient master from behind the screen of their computer. How do we know that the guys who proclaim "ability over paper" actually have any ability? People can posture all over the internet they want, but how are we to know they have the time in service they claim, or the experiences the mention?

Rank, affiliations and such really do not insure that a person has ability, but what better way is there to know the aproximate level of ability of a person? Some things are obvious from the way a person posts, but in some cases you ahve to take the word of the person on his experience. And how can you prove that someone really is a tough guy without looking at his time in training, the teachers he trained under, etc? I will admit there are idiots who have been training for longer than I have but are still clueless, but all things considered I will take the word of a long term practicioner over a short term one.

The problem of these types of people is so common now that Sharp Phil wrote an article about "Virtual Sensei" and another about "Virtual Tough Guys" I wish I could post a link to them, but can not seem to. But if you go to Philelmore.com and look in the martial arts section, you can find them.

Here is just a taste,

Unfortunately, self-defense and the martial arts attract a particular breed of fraud in vast and limitless numbers: the Virtual Tough Guy (VTG). The VTG is often quite young, but not necessarily so. He may or may not have useful information to share. What is important to the VTG, however, is that you be impressed with how very cool he is. More tenacious than a mall ninja, more impervious to reality than a mail-order black belt, the VTG needs you to acknowledge what a badass he is. He uses a variety of intellectually dishonest tools to accomplish this, among them vague claims to unverifiable training, crude reverse psychology, and the judicious application of bootlicking. Fortunately, the average Web denizen can learn to spot the VTG's warning signs, and take with his or her posts the appropriate number of grains of salt.

The Major Warning Signs

While these warning signs are by no means inclusive, and should not be used as the basis for an immediate declaration of VTG status when exhibited by a specific Internet forum participant, an individual who exhibits more than one or two of these signs should be viewed with skepticism and even suspicion. Chances are, he's a VTG -- and even if the information he imparts is not tactically, physically, or logistically unsound, he's using you to gratify his ego. Who wants to be used? Who enjoys condescension and pretense?

And a little more,

Look at Me, Look at Me

The VTG likes to start things off quickly. He'll introduce himself to a forum by telling everyone things he assumes they must know, since obviously everyone is interested in his personal style and statistics. No one has asked, but the VTG is more than happy to march in and announce his credentials to those assembled.


Hi, I'm new here! Let me give you a little background. I'm 6', 215lbs, and built like a He-Man action figure. I'm old enough to have some experience, but too young to feel it yet.

You see the problem with just going with a person's claimed ability?

 

[RyuShiKan]

Don,

People keep pitchin’ em and you keep knockn’ em out of the park.
(i.e. your right on the money)

This thread has never been about ability and I can’t recall ever questioning anyone’s……….this “ability over rank” has been their “defensive posture” since this thread came out.
This thread could be about ability if someone were to make some extravagant claim on the Internet…like “I killed a charging bear by using only my tooth brush and my internal powers of ki”…..but so far that has not really been the topic and won’t be until I see such claims.

Quite frankly guys that post how they were in xxx number of real life confrontations don’t hold much weight with me. They remind me of virgin school boys talking about how many girls they have slept with.
Both are a joke.


As for Sharp Phil’s guide to spotting internet posers…………a must read!
You da man Phil! You da man!

 

[SteelShadow]

I asked this one time but you may have missed it.What style do you study and what orginizations do you belong to.You seem to have quiet abit of knowledge on a wide range of arts.I am genuinly curious?

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan

As for Sharp Phil’s guide to spotting internet posers…………a must read!
You da man Phil! You da man!

RSK,
I tought you were better than that! You need to go to: http://www.philelmore.com/ and read his bio, "ITS A MUST READ."


He's a green sash and has been training since 1990 and co-founding his own style and seems to represent everything you don't, I would think that you would ATTACK him at least half as much as YOU ATTACKED ME!

My friend, are you sure you want to quote him

Based on what you've told ARK nobody is are qualified by their "hard core training" alone.

OH YEA. I know he's "the E-Budo, BAD Budo Buster!"
Kinda Ironic, don't ya think?

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by SteelShadow
I asked this one time but you may have missed it.What style do you study and what orginizations do you belong to.You seem to have quiet abit of knowledge on a wide range of arts.I am genuinly curious?

Sorry, I thought you were talking to me.:asian:

 

[Phil Elmore]

If you're going to attempt to divert attention away from your own problems by pointing at me, that's fine -- but stop to consider just how stupid a choice that might be. I don't recall arguing with you before, but if you want to make an *** of yourself, you're well on your way.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Sharp Phil
If you're going to attempt to divert attention away from your own problems by pointing at me, that's fine -- but stop to consider just how stupid a choice that might be. I don't recall arguing with you before, but if you want to make an *** of yourself, you're well on your way.

No we haven't argued and I don't dispute you're abilities, just those here that "quote you" should be a representative of what "you" represent.

And they don't!

You're in the crossfire, "they" brought you in by quoting you.

That last article you posted, does represent the type of things that I posted in the past as far as you're outlook on the arts, and I was slammed, then they became turncoats by quoting you when in reality thats not how they feel.

For the record I don't have any "problems" and diverting attention has nothing to do with it.

When they respond you can "see" for yourself and "Read" their respones. Its double standard double talk.

 

[KennethKu]

Please kindly take personal argument off the forum. We don't care to read about who has attacked whom.

 

[Phil Elmore]

I interviewed Matt for my website and I consider Don Roley a personal friend. Neither are persons of low character. I've come to trust Don's judgment in particular, in the past.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Sharp Phil
I interviewed Matt for my website and I consider Don Roley a personal friend. Neither are persons of low character. I've come to trust Don's judgment in particular, in the past.

Don, I do not know and Matt I would consider and internet friend.

RSK quoted you and like I said (judging on what you've written) you represent everything he does not, in fact what you have written partially backs up the ones the he was attacking.

He is not a bad guy, nor is anyone else in here. But if your beliefs are not inline with those you quote, then you shouldn't be quoting them.

When I mentioned wait for their response, I already knew, its the same ol song and dance. We know why they "quote" certain articles like the dojo fraud type of thing, because it leads them right back to the same individual(s) that are on the hit list.

They will play innocent and say why won't he answer the questions. They turn it around everytime.

Playing internet martial cop is the game. Matt and the others are not the sheriff, they are more like the deputies , Don just recently picked up where Mike Clarke left off, don't know why, don't know him, don't care if he has good or bad charactor. Charactor is not the issue.

And this is the last thing, if you read the thread. Everyone wants proof of so and so's rank. I put out the post for everyone to prove themselves as well (to judge is to be judged) and Arnisador is THE ONLY ONE that stepped up to the plate! The others just want to be the judge.:asian:

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by KennethKu
Please kindly take personal argument off the forum. We don't care to read about who has attacked whom.

There is no "argument" here. We are dicussing "Claims on the Internet"

But I do think that your ITF/WTF dicussion MIGHT of been off topic.

 

[Phil Elmore]

The profiling guides quoted were written quite some time ago. If you yourself in them, in whole or in part, it should give you pause.