Child Black Belts

[Sapper6]

Here's a situation I want you to consider. There's a 13 year old black belt from my dojo who I post back and forth with on my dojo's forum. He asks a lot of questions, which isn't a bad thing, but he asks questions about concepts and theorys that he should, in my opinion, already know about as a black belt. I have no doubt in my mind that he could beat me in a fight if he wanted to cause he has the skills necessary to be a black belt. But he doesn't have understanding of the fighting concepts to even teach what he just does naturally.

One reason for this could be that he doesn't pay attention in class. The concepts are taught in class so he should know them, as far as I'm concerned, although I'm not sure if they're emphasized as much in the younger classes as compared to the adult ones. The other reason could be that he's just too young to understand the concepts, to actually make that connection and he's just never had to because he could naturally do the techniques without the understanding.

wow.

possessing ability and being able to teach it are two different things. some people know "how" to do things but not necessarily how to "teach" them.

i don't know what your school's standards are for being promoted to black belt so i am not going to comment on that. however, i would at least expect that respective students have a solid understanding of the things they are doing and why they do them, before being promoted. just being "able" doesn't necessarily make one qualified.

therein lies the problem with promoting young students beyond their realm of understanding. you must learn to crawl before walking.

 

[ChrisWTK]

wow.

possessing ability and being able to teach it are two different things. some people know "how" to do things but not necessarily how to "teach" them.

Yeah, that was bad wording on my part. I didn't mean teaching but just being able to express what you know. When he tries to explain things you can really tell where his comprehension is lacking and it's clear that it's mainly because he's young.

i don't know what your school's standards are for being promoted to black belt so i am not going to comment on that. however, i would at least expect that respective students have a solid understanding of the things they are doing and why they do them, before being promoted. just being "able" doesn't necessarily make one qualified.

therein lies the problem with promoting young students beyond their realm of understanding. you must learn to crawl before walking.

I agree, that's the point i was trying to show.

 

[Flying Crane]

I agree.

From my eyes it is not so much that MA is a business that is a problem, it is the rampant lack of business skills that are a problem.

It would be scandalous if someone taught Martial Arts without any training or education whatsoever. Yet, it is perfectly acceptable in MA for someone to start a MA buisness without any formal training or education in a solid buisness curriculum.

Actually, I think the problem is that too many people are too good at business, and the Martial Arts in many ways are incompatible with a successful business model, if you want to maintain high quality and standards.

Probably some of the best instruction is being done by those who do not have a strong business focus. These are the same people who do not pander to children and "Martial Arts Moms", their dojo is not daycare, and they don't give out rank to those who do not deserve it, no matter their age.

 

[BigMike]

Actually, I think the problem is that too many people are too good at business, and the Martial Arts in many ways are incompatible with a successful business model, if you want to maintain high quality and standards.

I'm getting a business degree right now and I'd have to agree with this. MA Schools just aren't a traditional business. The goals are different. You're not turning out quantifiable product. I think where the problem lies is that some instructors appear to look at the # of black belts or belt progressions per quarter as their product. Then they turn around and promise that progression to moms and students. Then, if the required quota isn't achieved, they are set up as a failure. And nobody wants to be a failure, so the standards come down.

My last teacher ran his own business, so he had both sets of skills. He maintained very high standards for his belts, but I think that's because he didn't view it as a business, but more of a hobby or a calling.

Big Mike

 

[Carol]

Actually, I think the problem is that too many people are too good at business, and the Martial Arts in many ways are incompatible with a successful business model, if you want to maintain high quality and standards.

Probably some of the best instruction is being done by those who do not have a strong business focus. These are the same people who do not pander to children and "Martial Arts Moms", their dojo is not daycare, and they don't give out rank to those who do not deserve it, no matter their age.

Aha. Very good point, and I agree so let me clarify where I'm from being a businessperson myself.

What is happening to these schools is a lowest common denomonator approach, a giveaway approach. Only that instead of dropping the price they are weakening the value. The problem sources from a lack of good selling skills. In the corporate world, salespeople typically have higher salaries than their similarly ranked peers, and executive-level perks. This is for two important reasons: competent salespeople bring revenue in to the company and keep the value of the product. Small businesses of many sorts often fall flat apart because the owners don't have the salesmanship or business development skills to achieve these two critical tasks.

Selling is a skill, and selling is very very hard to do well. Business is tough, and can take years to cultivate.

The instructors that keep their instruction at a high quality are instinctively keeping the value of their product, and are willing to do what they need to do (ie: work another job) to keep the value. Pairing this business development/operating skills, and over time one could potentially have the best of both worlds: a very successful business with a very high quality product.

 

[hongkongfooey]

Here's a situation I want you to consider. There's a 13 year old black belt from my dojo who I post back and forth with on my dojo's forum. He asks a lot of questions, which isn't a bad thing, but he asks questions about concepts and theorys that he should, in my opinion, already know about as a black belt. I have no doubt in my mind that he could beat me in a fight if he wanted to cause he has the skills necessary to be a black belt. But he doesn't have understanding of the fighting concepts to even teach what he just does naturally.

One reason for this could be that he doesn't pay attention in class. The concepts are taught in class so he should know them, as far as I'm concerned, although I'm not sure if they're emphasized as much in the younger classes as compared to the adult ones. The other reason could be that he's just too young to understand the concepts, to actually make that connection and he's just never had to because he could naturally do the techniques without the understanding.

Don't equate skills aquired to pass a promotion with fighting skills. I seriously doubt that a 13 year old child could beat a fully grown adult in a real fight. He may land a shot or two in sparring, but that's not fighting.