Old Fat Kenpoka
Master Black Belt
Old Fat Kenpoka said:
Probationary Black Belt ???????????
- Thread starter Kenpojujitsu3
- Start date
M
Motobu-Ha
Guest
I am a practitioner of Japanese/Okinawan Karate.
We use the probationary BB (Shodan-Ho), this is for those people who are almost ready for there 1st Degree test. The test for their Shodan-Ho, but the belt the are awarded is a BB with a white stripe down the middle of it. This way people see the different belt and don't assume they are a full ranked BB.
This is also the rank that youths (under 16) are awarded, since we do not promote people under 16 to 1st degree. This is a maturity issue.
But depending on the age of the student when they are up for Shodan-Ho the belts are different. They are:
8-11 y/o - Brown Belt w/ Black stripe down middle of belt
11-13 y/o - 1/2 Brown, 1/2 Black Belt (similar to a TKD sr. red belt)
13-16 y/o - Black belt w/ White stripe down the middle of the belt.
Stripes are also added to the ends to denote time at rank, this also lets the have a progression of rank (so to speak).
Some may not agree with this method, but its what we use.
We use the probationary BB (Shodan-Ho), this is for those people who are almost ready for there 1st Degree test. The test for their Shodan-Ho, but the belt the are awarded is a BB with a white stripe down the middle of it. This way people see the different belt and don't assume they are a full ranked BB.
This is also the rank that youths (under 16) are awarded, since we do not promote people under 16 to 1st degree. This is a maturity issue.
But depending on the age of the student when they are up for Shodan-Ho the belts are different. They are:
8-11 y/o - Brown Belt w/ Black stripe down middle of belt
11-13 y/o - 1/2 Brown, 1/2 Black Belt (similar to a TKD sr. red belt)
13-16 y/o - Black belt w/ White stripe down the middle of the belt.
Stripes are also added to the ends to denote time at rank, this also lets the have a progression of rank (so to speak).
Some may not agree with this method, but its what we use.
OP
Kenpojujitsu3
Master Black Belt
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- Thread Starter
- #23
Well I guess it could be worse. Instead of charging people $150 on Ebay for taped lessons, certificates and an unearned but given Black Belt people could be charging monthly dues for lessons, certificates and then an unearned but given Black belt. Wait a minute that's what's going on here! But the EBAY option is cheaper! But people keep harping on that. So it's better if you spend MORE money and TAKE LONGER to get the unearned but given Black Belt. Now I get it. It's morally better because there's MORE MONEY exchanged and the instructor actually trained the student as somepoint before just handing out a black belt. I finally figured it all out now. Now I'm SURE that this gets my special flag. Which flag you ask.
This one.
This one.
C
CrankyDragon
Guest
Ditto.Kenpojujitsu3 said:
Sigung86
2nd Black Belt
Being a bit of a non-traditionalist ... ahem ... I don't see where the use of a temporary Black Belt, or Black Belt select, or whatever is of any real use.
If it takes x amount of techniques, x amount of forms, x amount of teaching time or whatever the requirements are, then go ahead and promote...
It's much like in a college or high school setting... You complete a predetermined amount of material to receive the diploma or degree. You get it, and get on with life. High School diplomas are usually not awarded in cases of drop out ... College degrees, the same, or else non-payment, but once you have completed x amount of requirements... ShaZaam! You are one.
In most TKD schools I've run across, the test for the "inbetween" or striped belt appears to be a way to catch just a tad bit more of lucre from the student.
Did you know there are schools that charge about 1000 bucks for the Black Belt test? :idunno:
If a student (female or male) looks, acts, moves, and generally comports as a Black Belt, then s/he is one, especially with the great gaping hollow in the lower areas left by the swiftly burgeoning gob of 10th degrees. :uhyeah:
We need to fill in underneath with indians for all the new chiefs to stand on...
:readrules
I like Doc's set up.. It's a little more involved, but it definitely achieves some important goals. In the case of teachers, it is a Black Belt with one certificate for form and the other for function (teaching)... That's very cool, bu there is little to no emphasis there on belt ranks. And, often times, the belts have become so common as to be almsot not worth running for... But then I"ve had my Black for about 30 years, so it may have lost some of its mystique. :boing2:
If it takes x amount of techniques, x amount of forms, x amount of teaching time or whatever the requirements are, then go ahead and promote...
It's much like in a college or high school setting... You complete a predetermined amount of material to receive the diploma or degree. You get it, and get on with life. High School diplomas are usually not awarded in cases of drop out ... College degrees, the same, or else non-payment, but once you have completed x amount of requirements... ShaZaam! You are one.
In most TKD schools I've run across, the test for the "inbetween" or striped belt appears to be a way to catch just a tad bit more of lucre from the student.
Did you know there are schools that charge about 1000 bucks for the Black Belt test? :idunno:
If a student (female or male) looks, acts, moves, and generally comports as a Black Belt, then s/he is one, especially with the great gaping hollow in the lower areas left by the swiftly burgeoning gob of 10th degrees. :uhyeah:
We need to fill in underneath with indians for all the new chiefs to stand on...
:readrules
I like Doc's set up.. It's a little more involved, but it definitely achieves some important goals. In the case of teachers, it is a Black Belt with one certificate for form and the other for function (teaching)... That's very cool, bu there is little to no emphasis there on belt ranks. And, often times, the belts have become so common as to be almsot not worth running for... But then I"ve had my Black for about 30 years, so it may have lost some of its mystique. :boing2:
C
Castle
Guest
Sorry to interupt but what is "the birth of pain"?
Sapper6
3rd Black Belt
NGAzone said:
ditto again.
Sapper6
3rd Black Belt
TwistofFat
Green Belt
One of the things I always liked about "our" version of Kenpo was the higher than average standard. I wore my Brown Belt for 5 years and it was tattered and old (like me). I knew the requirements for Black involved more than just knowing the techniques/forms required. I was taught it meant coming to class, teaching others (and yourself) but then proving yourself under pressure, often violent pressure.
I like Mister Bishop's and Doc's approach very much, but that takes a school and an instructor that is dedicated and stays in "business" long enough for the validation to occur (like Doc and Bishop, Cappi, Dye, and many others).
"Seven years of college down the drain..."- Glenn.
I like Mister Bishop's and Doc's approach very much, but that takes a school and an instructor that is dedicated and stays in "business" long enough for the validation to occur (like Doc and Bishop, Cappi, Dye, and many others).
"Seven years of college down the drain..."- Glenn.
BallistikMike
Green Belt
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- Oct 5, 2004
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Now I am no where insuating a spelling problem, but I just wanted to know...Doc said:..."We are the Borg. Resistance Is Futile - you will be assimilated" is a running joke in the "collective" known as SunLevel Four Kenpo.
Keep them honest "over there" Hawkman and look out for the politics.
Does Sunlevel Four Kenpo entitle Coronas, a beech, bikini dressed women and possibly, just maybe freshly made avacado dip?
Cause Im all about making the trip out to California for that class!!!!
Doc
Senior Master
Yes it is SubLevel Four, and yes we do have that class, and its run by my student from the DEA.BallistikMike said:
B
BlackIce
Guest
Kenpo Greetings,
We have a " Student Black Belt " who wears a 1/2 Brown , 1/2 Black Belt. This is a Rank for a Jr. Student (12-16 years old) that has not met our 3600 hrs of Teaching Time, and have not met the age requirement(must be at least 16 years old). I believe that if you can teach it properly to someone who has no idea what they are doing then you understand it. This student may compete as a JR. Black Belt but does not receive all the customs and courteseys of a Jr. Black Belt. a " Junios Black Belt " wears a Black Belt with a White Stripe through the middle. This is for a youth Student (12-16 years old) they have met all criteria for 1st Black Belt ( Thesis, 3600 Teaching hours, Curriculum, and Testing). They wear this rank untill 16 years of age at that time if they are in good standing and active then they awarded 1st Degree Black Belt upno completion of Our Written and Physical Exams.
We have a " Student Black Belt " who wears a 1/2 Brown , 1/2 Black Belt. This is a Rank for a Jr. Student (12-16 years old) that has not met our 3600 hrs of Teaching Time, and have not met the age requirement(must be at least 16 years old). I believe that if you can teach it properly to someone who has no idea what they are doing then you understand it. This student may compete as a JR. Black Belt but does not receive all the customs and courteseys of a Jr. Black Belt. a " Junios Black Belt " wears a Black Belt with a White Stripe through the middle. This is for a youth Student (12-16 years old) they have met all criteria for 1st Black Belt ( Thesis, 3600 Teaching hours, Curriculum, and Testing). They wear this rank untill 16 years of age at that time if they are in good standing and active then they awarded 1st Degree Black Belt upno completion of Our Written and Physical Exams.
By "3600 hrs of Teaching Time" do you mean time that they are being taught, or time that they themselves are teaching? Is this different from training time?
B
BlackIce
Guest
They the Student Black Belts and 1st Browns (this student may not be ready to compete at a Black Belt Level) must have 3600 hours of in studio instruction time teaching other students. They may be Tiny tigers (3-7 year olds) Beginner classes(White - Blue Belt), or Advanced classes(Green-Brown Belt). My standards are very high and I only have 3 students who are qualified for Student Black Belt at this time. Does this help to explain how we use this rank?
I suppose...a 12 year old who amassed 3600 hours of teaching others would likely be in violation of child labor laws, no? That's about 2 hours per day for 5 years?
Sigung86
2nd Black Belt
arnisador said:
Actually, that whole gig is in violation of federal labor laws, I do believe.
The intent is honorable, and traditional... The action is unlawful, as I recall, to have people teaching at a school for free like that. That figures out to about 1.5 full man years of indenture, or essentially, slave labor. And the Feds take a real dim view of that sort of actiivty.
Doc
Senior Master
I wonder if the Arthur Murray Dance Studios know that.Sigung86 said:
Sigung86
2nd Black Belt
Doc said:I wonder if the Arthur Murray Dance Studios know that.
Dunno Doc ... But Uncle Al Tracy sure does.
:whip: :uhyeah:
B
BlackIce
Guest
Ok Ok I Get it,
So as to not get sent to "Club FED" for Child Slavery how would you recomend I help them get some "surevised instructional time" in for promotion purposes and not be in violation of anf federal or child labor laws? How do i help a 15/5 year old Student Black Belt get his time in? Or do I just reduce or remove the teaching criteria all together. Please give me some feerback.
So as to not get sent to "Club FED" for Child Slavery how would you recomend I help them get some "surevised instructional time" in for promotion purposes and not be in violation of anf federal or child labor laws? How do i help a 15/5 year old Student Black Belt get his time in? Or do I just reduce or remove the teaching criteria all together. Please give me some feerback.
Kenpo Salute
Well, I would think it would suffice to re-describe it so it sounds like an activity, not a job. They're being trained to be teachers, right--they aren't already teachers?
