Probationary Black Belt ???????????

[BlackIce]

That is correct they are training to be teachers. It is basically set up as a trainning program. They don't open the stdio and start class. It is a class within the class I give them groups and assign certain material for them to cover. They are evaluated on their performance and how well they can convey the concepts being taught to other students

 

[Sigung86]

Again... No offense was intended nor is implied. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems that rather than sit here and let a bunch of us mentally slobber over everything, rationalize and try to make what you are doing fit a niche, treat your business like a business.

Get hold of the labor people, or a labor type lawyer and find out what you can and can't do.

The whole thing simply revolves around covering your butt, and like I said, treating your business as a business. In America ain't like it used to was in China, Japan, etc. There are strict laws, and like in everything else, there are so many of them that we have to have lawyers to keep us from sinking in the quagmire.

I personally don't charge for lessons and teach for free several nights a week at a church and at my home, and with that in mind, my circumstance is different from yours. My Black Belt levels does not require training in instructing to be eligible to be promoted. The instructor training is hands on, after Black Belt and not a requirement. Many folks who graduate to the Dan grades don't want to teach. They move on, or simply stay as eternal students. Have several who have been with me for over ten years.

If they don't want to teach, I don't make them do it.

You might also consider making the training classes for instructors an advanced thing and charge for it...

I would also consider picking Doc's brain if he has time. I may be way off base here, after all... All I know is what I learned when I used to be a real Black Belt under Team Tracy. And say what you want about the Tracy Organization, good and or bad, Al is first and foremost a business man and is going to do very little or allow very little that will be a detriment to his perceived operations.

With that in mind, if you ever have an opportunity to obtain any of his business tapes you will get an eyeful and lots to think about. For instance ... Knowing Kenpo or whatever Martial Art you are into, is only ranked fourth on the list of things you need to know and or do to operate a successful business.....

Ask Arthur Murray. :uhyeah: :uhyeah: :uhyeah:

 

[RichK]

Child labor law states 14. Anyone below the age of 14 is not allowed to work. If someone is teaching in your school the need to be paid, it is a whole differnet type of laws for bartering. If the students are "attending" class and them you break them down to groups as group leaders then I think you are okay, but you should look up the laws in your area. You also need to be aware of the clock as on certain nights (school nights) they are not allowed to go past a certain hour.

 

[Sigung86]

Child labor law states 14. Anyone below the age of 14 is not allowed to work. If someone is teaching in your school the need to be paid, it is a whole differnet type of laws for bartering. If the students are "attending" class and them you break them down to groups as group leaders then [/b]I think you are okay, but you should look up the laws in your area....[/b]

My point exactly ... Instead of trying to feel good about what we all may think, it is probably better to treat your school as a business, and find out what your legal requirements are.

But then... It's not my school.:idunno:

 

[arnisador]

Definitely, talk to a lawyer! But also...isn't 3600 hours of teaching a lot of time for a 12 year old? That's 7 days a week, 365 days a year, teaching 2 hours a day...for 5 years!!! Plus the child's own training...is that realistic? Is it reasonable?

 

[Seabrook]

I personally don't charge for lessons and teach for free several nights a week at a church and at my home
:uhyeah: :uhyeah: :uhyeah:

Wow. That is so awesome. Very few people would ever think about doing what you are. You really deserve to be paid well, but that is your perogative.

My hat goes off to you sir.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[BlackIce]

Let Me Explain,
The Students in question are 14.5 and 15.5. We train 3 days a week for 1.5hrs.and they do group instruction for 30 mins twice a week. So thats about 4 hrs a month. I believe in learning by teaching. my students teach me something new every class.

 

[arnisador]

Math. was never my best subject in school, but at 4 hours per month, amassing 3600 hours total will take about 900 months, or 75 years.

So, you have 15 year olds with 75 years of teaching experience?

 

[BlackIce]

Heads Up!,
The 3600 hrs. is a test all unto itself. It is designed to see if the student will be dedicated enough to wholeheartedly attempt to "Earn" those hours. I never have expected them to amass that many "supervised teaching hours". It is an exercise in Commitment and Dedication. Traits that are lacking in this generation of young people.I will never promote someone under 16 years of age to Black Belt. That's my personal choice. I see 7 year olds sporting 3rd Degrees and above at tournament and it turns my stomach. McDojo's crank them out like hot cakes and make $$$$$$. but where are the real Character Building, Life Skills, and Practical Self-Defense Leassons? They are dissappering and being replaced by PAPER TIGERS and INTERNET DRAGONS...... The Lessons I learned in Keno as well as The ARMY have made me a STRONGER MAN and I will do my best to instill those qualities in my students.... The Future of our Nation!

 

[Sigung86]

Heads Up!,
The 3600 hrs. is a test all unto itself. It is designed to see if the student will be dedicated enough to wholeheartedly attempt to "Earn" those hours. I never have expected them to amass that many "supervised teaching hours". It is an exercise in Commitment and Dedication. Traits that are lacking in this generation of young people.I will never promote someone under 16 years of age to Black Belt. That's my personal choice. I see 7 year olds sporting 3rd Degrees and above at tournament and it turns my stomach. McDojo's crank them out like hot cakes and make $$$$$$. but where are the real Character Building, Life Skills, and Practical Self-Defense Leassons? They are dissappering and being replaced by PAPER TIGERS and INTERNET DRAGONS...... The Lessons I learned in Keno as well as The ARMY have made me a STRONGER MAN and I will do my best to instill those qualities in my students.... The Future of our Nation!

No problemo from me Bubba...

But ... If I'as you, I'd look at this link... And go to the link that is on the page.

http://www.tracyskarate.com/Business/child_labor.htm

Say what you want about Tracy and his Karaté, he is, after all, one Hell of a business head.

Your response appears to have taken a little too long to come up with and appears to be, somewhat, contrived.

Again... No offense to you or what you do. It's not my school. I just hate to see someone go down over something that is law and could have been prevented.

If you've checked with a lawyer and this all is your answer and you're sticking to it... Then that's ok I guess. But it seems full of wholes to me.

Have a great day, and hopefully you will not take personal offense toward me for posting this.

Dan

 

[arnisador]

The 3600 hrs. is a test all unto itself. It is designed to see if the student will be dedicated enough to wholeheartedly attempt to "Earn" those hours. I never have expected them to amass that many "supervised teaching hours". It is an exercise in Commitment and Dedication.

I still don't get it. If a 16 year old has been training for 12 years and teaching for 10 of those years, he'd have to teach 360 hours/year on average to make this amount. That's basically an hour a day, 365 days a year. But presumably you have many students...how can they all amass this much teaching time? How many hours a day do your students train? If there are 5 such students, they each need to teach for an hour every day...even if these are 45 minute class periods called "hours" for convenience, that's still a heck of a lot of time.

How are people making this work? Is anyone gettin in that much time?

 

[MJS]

Heads Up!,
The 3600 hrs. is a test all unto itself. It is designed to see if the student will be dedicated enough to wholeheartedly attempt to "Earn" those hours. I never have expected them to amass that many "supervised teaching hours". It is an exercise in Commitment and Dedication. Traits that are lacking in this generation of young people.I will never promote someone under 16 years of age to Black Belt. That's my personal choice. I see 7 year olds sporting 3rd Degrees and above at tournament and it turns my stomach. McDojo's crank them out like hot cakes and make $$$$$$. but where are the real Character Building, Life Skills, and Practical Self-Defense Leassons? They are dissappering and being replaced by PAPER TIGERS and INTERNET DRAGONS...... The Lessons I learned in Keno as well as The ARMY have made me a STRONGER MAN and I will do my best to instill those qualities in my students.... The Future of our Nation!

There seems to be a bit of confusion on how someone can acheive this many hours. Perhaps you can give us a few more details as to how your school does this task?

Mike

 

[BlackIce]

"3600 hrs. The simplified version."
Timmy is 13 years old. he has trained with me for 4 years and has just been promoted to Green Belt. I say ' now that you are a Green Belt you are required the earn 3600 hrs. of Supervised Teaching Experience or turn 16 before you reach 1st Brown before I consider you for Black Belt Testing." So he enthusiasticly pick up 30 minutes here or there and write down his time in his student log......... Two years has past ..... Timmy is now 15 and has excelled above and beyond by my standards ( which are extremely high ). He has amassed a whopping 96 hrs in 2 years ( 30 mins. twice a week for 2 years ). He trains 3 day a week for 1.5 hrs. in the studio. He travels on our tournament team , and make all our team workouts ( 1 a month for 5 hrs. ). He dominates the advanced divisions. Now comes the dicision... He has 11 months before he turns 16.... He has become a strong leader and a skilled Kenpo practitioner. I say you are now a " Student Black Belt " ( he wears a 1/2 Brown 1/2 Black Belt ). He is allowed to compete as a Jr. Black Belt and earn prize $ at tournaments. He begins research for his thesis, and begins to learn the whole Kenpo Carriculum ( not the abridged version taught to children at our studio ). At 16 Timmy takes his Jr. Black Belt Exam God willing he passes and is awarded Jr. Black Belt Status. Do you understand how I use the 3600 hrs. A student is never supposed to amass that much time. It is a mental test I use to see if they are committed to the task at hand. I put an impossible goal in front of them to see if they will attempt to succeed. I use it to help develop mental toughness ( an old ARMY trick ... create a stressful environment to test the soldiers training and reactions to stress ). It may not be fair or even rational by martial arts standards, but I want my students prepaired the that Big Bad Nasty World waiting for them. If you don't factor the student actually having to earn that many hours it works out fine. Remember it is " Supervised Instruction ". A class within the main class nothing more... It is not free / slave labor.... It could be used as a Public Speaking exercise ( to get over shyness )..... Or help a Student Build Self-Esteem and Confidence. Anyway that's how I do it. I am by no means offended by any comments made by my Kenpo Brothers & Sisters. This is just an exchange of ideas and opinions.

Kenpo Salute
Tyrone Tablada​

 

[arnisador]

Yes, now I understand.

 

[John Bishop]

So what do you tell the kids who do the math and say: "Sensei, it will take me 75 years to collect 3600 hours of teaching time."

 

[gmkuoha]

Hi there everyone, been gone a long time...been awfully busy traveling and fixing up our home. In the Chinese Kara-Ho Kempo Karate System, we have probations for every dan rank, from 1st on through. Evere promotion is 1-year and then if they pass the physical test they will recieve their belts, and they also recieves a small diploma...but only till the board of directors view this student/instructor to see if they had progressed in that 1 year, does that instructor recieves his/hers large instructor's certificate that is signed a notarized by myself as mine was by Professor William Chow. Many times a person gets his/hers black belt and they can't handle it all and forgets what is humilty. This we have seen so many times, not only in our system..but many others. This way it keeps that person on "check" so to speak and if they know they are on probation...it seems as if they work even harder then they did before. Everey "dan" rank is the same 1-year even my highest ranking instructor at 6th dan goes through the same probationary period.
Grandmaster Kuoha

 

[BlackIce]

Kenpo Greetings,
Mr. Bishop the average kid in my area is Not going to do the math. I live in in area in rural georgia where 85% of the county is functionally Illereterate. But you do have exceptions to that. To them I tell it is not the destination that is important ( the 3600 hrs. ), but the journey. Sure kids are smarter and want to know why this is this and that is that but sometime I say " Because I Say So ! " ..... I haven't had any complaints yet but if I do them I will reexamine my 3600 hrs. provision. Remember I never expect them to get that many hours so I don't dwell on the numbers I look for the Effort in that person. It's all a head game to develop mental toughness.

Kenpo Salute​

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Kenpo Greetings,
Mr. Bishop the average kid in my area is Not going to do the math. I live in in area in rural georgia where 85% of the county is functionally Illereterate.

Kenpo Salute​

I'd move away from that scene as fast as my car could drive. Illiterate?

DarK LorD

 

[BlackIce]

Kenpo Greetings,
My 3600 hrs. " requirement " is Just like The ARMY's Victory Tower or The Marine Corps' Crucuble. It is exercise designed to test my Jr. Student's commitment level. It breaks down to ..... How Bad do you want It, and How Hard are you Willing to Work?

 

[dianhsuhe]

Wow- this has turned into quite a thread... I understand that you are trying to motivate them and see how dedicated they are but I would adjust the math just so it makes sense... Set it high maybe but not obviously unachievable.



Just my .02

Jamey