How old for Black Belt?

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Sandor

It doesn't surprise me that dans are awarded for mastery of other things.

Me either. I'm on the phone with Trojan, Ramses, and Sheik right now pleading my case.

 

[Sandor]

Originally posted by GouRonin


Me either. I'm on the phone with Trojan, Ramses, and Sheik right now pleading my case.

Hehehe ROFLMAO! That, my friend, was the funniest thing I've seen you post all year!

 

[tshadowchaser]

As for myslef I belive that a Black Belt should have more meaning than doing X number of forms and Xy number of self defence. A person should have the mental ability to tell right from wrong just from unjust and be of legal age to take the consiquences for his actions.
Now I am not saying a person with mental handicaps can not atttain a Blak Belt but that is a whole other subject.
On the other hand I live in a country where oe can not serve in the military and kill there country's enemys until they are 18
Please forgive spellin mitakes I spell poorly
Shadow

 

[Kroy]

I agree 18 is a good age (legal adult)

 

[parkerkarate]

I was 16 when I got my first degree black belt, and 18 when I got my second, now I will be 20 when I get my 3rd.

 

[rmcrobertson]

What I always find interesting about these sorts of discussions--and the discussions over whether or not kids can earn a legit black belt--is that they always rely on a binary opposition: "their," illegitimacy vs. "my," unspoken perfection.

At some level, in some fashion, all of us black belts suck. We all of us--well, darn near--at some level, in some fashion, fall short of the criteria for legit black belt status.

Among the reasons you need to be advanced to promote students to black belt is this: you need to be advanced enough to be able to take the whole student into account.

Of course, this is open to considerable abuse...I guess one of the reasons for the kenpo system is to give us SOME sort of reasonably-objective criteria...

 

[parkerkarate]

The only reason that I have gone through these belts so quickly is

1. I am a quick learner
2. I have a photo graphic memory
3. I practice at home to make my self better, which has paid off in my eyes
4. I am a profectionist when it comes to martial arts, I said I did not want to test for my second brown when I was supose to because I thought I was not ready
5. I started when I was 13 and I was to big for the kids class so I started in the adult class

If I wasn't this lucky I would not have red stripes I would have white.

I am not trying to be mean that is just what I want to say about that.

 

[Norma]

I thought i'd add my 2 cents.

Since i have a child in karate.

My son's instructor, has an 8 year son her self who is JUST got a Junior black belt,,, BUT, he still have to go through teen/adult belt before he gets his * true black belt*

I don't think age has as much to do with it as much as maturity, understanding and ability. LOL i'm no expert, just from what i'm learning..

I thought this post was great because i notice a student older teen, with a black belt with a white stripe on the end, and this belt wasn't on the wall, MOST belts are in order on the walls, So i asked the my son instructor and she said he's a junior black, then she pointed to her son who also has same title Junior BUT 2 very different belts. She said this older teen i think he was turning 17, was going for his black very soon. I watched him teacher a famaily class while the instructor was talking to us. very impressive.

Norma

 

[Rick Wade]

What I have seen in to many Schools though it is tough to transition to a higher intensity when you go from the junior ranks to the senior ranks. They tend to still not have allot of intensity when they are hitting. Thus they tend to get frustrated when they join the adults.

Thanks for listening.

Rick

 

[8253]

I think as far as a junior black belt goes, it is a very good self esteem builder, but for a black belt the age would vary depending on the maturity of the person. There should however be a minimum age requirement due to some people mature quicker than others but are still not mentally ready to deal with the repurcussions of doing some of the material in the art. I believe it should be based on a certain skill level and the ability to not fight at every opportunity.

 

[Kenpodoc]

I'm 47 with my first Black. My 15 year old son started with me 7 years ago and has his Junior Black. The interesting thing is that he is actually the better martial artist. He remembers the techniques better and generally has better technique. I find that he has internalized the art far better than me and when challenged with unfamiliar holds or unexpected attacks acts in a more natural and frankly more effective manner.

I believe that people should be able to earn an adult blackbelt when they are able to train and test with adults at adult standards. Very few 14 year olds will qualify for this standard, some 21 year olds still don't qualify.

 

[drunken mistress]

I don´t mind oldies getting black belts as long as they deserve them. I think those ladies should kick higher or stick with a lower belt basically. I also don´t mind the idea of young black belts. Again I think they need to be judged by the same standard. My class doesn´t have any black belts yet but some of the yellow and orange belt kids of seven to ten years or so are very serious and dedicated. I don´t see the harm of them getting to black belt in a few years´time as long as they have a good attitude and can do the stuff.

 

[Elfan]

Musashi wrote about how a true warrior mastered many ways. For three years Musashi sat locked away, no human contact save the visitations of his keepers who brought him food and Takuan who brought him a seemingly endless supply of books. Essentually a prison sentence, the result of a wise bargain between Takuan and the Emporer for Shienmen Takezo's crimes against the state. His adventure in life was really beginning when Takuan and the Emporer released him. An incredible education, natural skills and some incredible luck... He was bound to be a great man. I digress.

The reason I am rambling about Musashi is he made an incredible effort to understand and master the other arts, perhaps being one of Japan's first renaissance men in that context and became an accomplished caligrapher/artist/sculptor. I have often wondered if this was the way before his time or a result of it.

It doesn't surprise me that dans are awarded for mastery of other things.

Thanks for the link

Peace,
Sandor

Are you sure that that "actually" happened? I know it is part of Eiji Yoshikawa's excellent dramatization (which I am currently re-reading) but I have never heard that told as one of the "real" stories. Your point stands regaurdless by the way, I'm just curious.

 

[arnisador]

I recently watched the Samurai I--II--III movies and it's in there too (was it 3 years?). I don't know what the facts are though!

 

[pete]

if its main purpose is to hold up one pants.

if a kid lacks the "maturity", focus, discipline, etc. he won't stick with it long enough to know anyway.

 

[Gentle Fist]

Last year I saw a news website that stated two 3 1/2 year old boys just received their rank of (2nd Degree Black Belt)Nidan....

To me that just spits on a black belt to the point that it becomes a #1 Supersized at McDondalds.....

Belts are great for kids and give goals, but when they are frequently given out they pretty much become a Youth Sports Trophy for participating.

Back on topic...

I say 21 for blackbelt, so students can drink the pain away after a couple hours of beat downs..Junior Blackbelt is a good idea for kids, but the real deal should be kept only for adults who can handle everything that goes with being a blackbelt.

 

[Rick Wade]

Last year I saw a news website that stated two 3 1/2 year old boys just received their rank of (2nd Degree Black Belt)Nidan....

To me that just spits on a black belt to the point that it becomes a #1 Supersized at McDondalds.....

Belts are great for kids and give goals, but when they are frequently given out they pretty much become a Youth Sports Trophy for participating.

Back on topic...

I say 21 for blackbelt, so students can drink the pain away after a couple hours of beat downs..Junior Blackbelt is a good idea for kids, but the real deal should be kept only for adults who can handle everything that goes with being a blackbelt.

I know exactly what you mean! It used to bother me that when kids had a black belt and I knew that I could take them( as a manner of speaking) :uhyeah: . Then in recent years it started bothering me when I would meet other black belt from other schools that would say stuff like please don't hit me hard :idunno: . Just wait a second! I thought you were a nidan or yondan. What the heck! I just don't worry about it. I form my own opinion about most students and just keep it to myself. I think that is best.

On the flip side of that coin my instructor's son is 22 started when he was 9 is only an orange belt (is really really really good orange belt). Man talk about tough promotion cycle.

 

[drunken mistress]

I could live with a person of fourteen having a black belt if they´ve been training since six or so. But they must be able to punch and kick with adult strength. I believe there are some that could. I´m not sure setting a precise age limit is a good idea as strength varies so much. There is a fearsome nine-year-old white belt in my class who punches with all his weight behind it. The adults have begun to decide this is the only kid they don´t need to go easy on. Last week our teacher (2nd Dan) had to sit down for five minutes with tears in his eyes after this little bruiser kicked him where it really hurts!

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I could live with a person of fourteen having a black belt if they´ve been training since six or so. But they must be able to punch and kick with adult strength. I believe there are some that could. I´m not sure setting a precise age limit is a good idea as strength varies so much. There is a fearsome nine-year-old white belt in my class who punches with all his weight behind it. The adults have begun to decide this is the only kid they don´t need to go easy on. Last week our teacher (2nd Dan) had to sit down for five minutes with tears in his eyes after this little bruiser kicked him where it really hurts!

I started training at 6, knew the material for BB by 12, but by-laws said I couldn't have it till 16, minimum. At 14, I sparred with a Tang Soo Doo 4th Dan, 34 years old, and about 200 lbs, and whooped him. My immediate instructor decided to by-pass the by-laws, and grant me my shodan.

That being said, I make 'em wait till 18. (What a butthead).

 

[Rick Wade]

Witha all that being said what should a "junior black belt" look like? black with a white stripe down the middle or what I have never personally seen one that looks like and thing other than a regular black belt.