Can you take criticism?

[Jenna]

Hello all you considered peeps I wonder can you take criticism of your performance? If so, how well?

Is there a point at which you feel criticism becomes harsh, insulting or personal? And if so, what is that boundary for you?

I know we should be open to criticism and but is it possible that we should close our ears to criticism from certain people even if they are higher ranked and vastly more experienced? I mean, have you a way to discern genuine criticism from something else?

Sorry about all the questions and but I would be indebted for any comment. Thank you
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[MA-Caver]

Hello all you considered peeps I wonder can you take criticism of your performance? If so, how well?

Is there a point at which you feel criticism becomes harsh, insulting or personal? And if so, what is that boundary for you?

I know we should be open to criticism and but is it possible that we should close our ears to criticism from certain people even if they are higher ranked and vastly more experienced? I mean, have you a way to discern genuine criticism from something else?

Sorry about all the questions and but I would be indebted for any comment. Thank you
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

For me it depends largely upon how it's given. If an instructor growled: "Your weakness disgusts me." Well that way would've merited a :btg: from me, I don't care WHO they are. :lol:
But if given constructively... "your stance is alright but you need to work on your form this way, because...."
Part of teaching is showing what the student is doing wrong after been shown the first time or second time and they're still not quite getting it. A good instructor IMO shows what the student is doing wrong and explains why and shows the correct way and explains (again) why. A good instructor also knows when to bite their tongue and let the student figure it out for themselves.
A good student accepts the fact that maybe... just maybe their first, second or third dan instructor might know what they're talking about and bites the bullet and does it the way they're shown.
I instruct (but not MA) and I try to explain the why's if I have to critique one of my "students". At least they'll understand (hopefully ) what it is that I see them doing wrong and why.
I could never do the Sgt. Hartman (Full Metal Jacket) thing and belittle and tear down a student in hopes that they'll work harder at bettering themselves. Besides, as we've seen... that way eventually gets you shot. :erg:

 

[Sukerkin]

In part, as you hinted Jenna, it does depend on where the criticism comes from.

However, criticism of your martial arts is the only way you'll ever know if you're really improving or not, so it is quite important not to be too thin-skinned about it.

My sensei used to pick up on faults in my iai all the time and altho' I never let it show, I was a touch concerned that maybe I just didn't 'have it' as far as swordwork went. There was praise in the mix as well but it is all too human to only notice the negative .

Then two events came in quick succession.

A fellow student let on that one reason why sensei would point out a flaw in my performance rather than someone elses was that I had a good attitude and sincerely wanted to learn. Also, I was confident enough in myself to 'take it', so I could serve as an example for the others without wilting .

The other incident was an exception that eavesdroppers never hear anything good about themselves as I overheard sensei and a sensei from another school commenting on how my iai had improved in such a short space of time.

Those two small events helped me maintain my view, that I've ever held, that criticism is not something to be embarassed by but thankful for.

Insults disguised as criticism are another thing entirely.

Some personality types might require that form of 'dominance ritual' to spur them on but not me. I'm sorry to say that I'm of a stubborn personality type which means I can be lead but not driven . Push on me too hard and I forget all my Zen-like 'bend like willow', dig my heels in and push back (Viking+Celt genes will come out one way or the other) :blush:.

 

[Kacey]

An instructor's purpose is to help someone improve; a student's job is to improve. Neither will happen without feedback. I'm with Caver, in that it depends on how the feedback is delivered - and also who it's delivered to. I had a student once (about 10) whose mother removed him from my class after he tested for his 9th gup high white belt - she felt that my saying things like "that's good, now change it this way to make it better" was not providing the "nurturing" he needed. I have no idea how she expected him to improve without feedback like that - I cannot imagine what his teachers at school heard (although, of course, she was present for much of the TKD class, where she wasn't at his school) - but I do know that the boy only cried when recieving feedback when mom was around.

Constructive criticism is a very effective way to help people improve, no matter the situation. Pointing out strengths and weaknesses helps people to know what they are doing well and what they could improve - as opposed to destructive criticism, which only tells people what they are doing wrong. Unfortunately, destructive criticism is often more common - and likewise, often easier to provide.

 

[terryl965]

Well I have been married for 18 years and so far Yes I can handle all the criticism she dishes out, Oh wait you are talking Martial Art wise it depends does the person critisizing me know anything or are they just like a buzy buddy.

 

[Flying Crane]

I think it's probably really a gut feeling. Depends on who is giving the criticism. Is it someone who matters to you, such as your instructor or one of your classmates? Or is it someone from outside your school who MAY or MAY NOT have relevant experience and knowledge from which to offer criticism? Maybe that's "advice" that doesn't need to matter to you.

Or if it's just some jackass who wants to get under your skin, well then it's usually pretty obvious that you can simply write him off as a wingnut and pay him no heed.

But usually you can feel in your gut if it's something that is meaningful or not, and you can tell if it's constructive or if it's personal and meant to be mean spirited.

 

[Jenna]

A good student accepts the fact that maybe... just maybe their first, second or third dan instructor might know what they're talking about and bites the bullet and does it the way they're shown.

that form of 'dominance ritual'

Unfortunately, destructive criticism is often more common - and likewise, often easier to provide.

you can tell if it's constructive or if it's personal

You guys are bang on the money with your comments and the above in particular. And I trust and value your opinions. And actually, I think as I type that trust is maybe a factor?

I wonder would you trust the critical opinion of someone you do not necessarily respect? Or perhaps do not respect as much as you should? I mean, I know we take each criticism on its merit. If this were a medical thing I might get a second opinion and but maybe the analogy would be asking the housemen after the senior consultant's diagnosis I think. Sorry.. attack of the similies.. And but I do value opinions you might have. Thank you sincerely.

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Flying Crane]

I wonder would you trust the critical opinion of someone you do not necessarily respect? Or perhaps do not respect as much as you should?

Jenna

ah, well, that's an interesting situation. I suppose we all have people for whom we have little or no respect. Could be many reasons why we feel this way about this person. Maybe we just don't know the person well enough, or maybe we have a serious personality clash. But that doesn't mean he/she has nothing of value to share, if he chooses to share it. In short, just because Mr. X is an A-Hole, doesn't mean he's wrong. Sometimes it can be hard to remember that, tho.

 

[MA-Caver]

You guys are bang on the money with your comments and the above in particular. And I trust and value your opinions. And actually, I think as I type that trust is maybe a factor?

I wonder would you trust the critical opinion of someone you do not necessarily respect? Or perhaps do not respect as much as you should? I mean, I know we take each criticism on its merit. If this were a medical thing I might get a second opinion and but maybe the analogy would be asking the housemen after the senior consultant's diagnosis I think. Sorry.. attack of the similies.. And but I do value opinions you might have. Thank you sincerely.

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

I'm not sure if I could trust the opinion of someone I don't respect... don't see how that's even possible. Why would you even listen to someone that you don't respect?
Maybe it's not being open minded enough but respect is pretty much a lot to do with accepting criticism from someone or not.

 

[stickarts]

One of my greatest instructors could be tough and was very honest and blunt when giving me feedback but he always gave suggestions on how I can improve and he was always equally encouraging when I showed a good effort or progress. He was firm but fair and respectful and I was able to accept that kind of criticism.
Although I still learn from those that are more harsh it is certainly more difficult to not get defensive if you feel as if you are being attacked.
Over time I have learned to put filters up and let through what is useful and ignore the rest.
An enemy or critic can be a big ally because they will be quick to find your weakness and you can learn from this!

 

[theletch1]

Well now there's constructive criticism and destructive criticism. The former I take quite well, usually with a smile and thank you tossed in. The later often leads to your second question and puts me in a situation to have to decide whether or not to take the criticism of someone I no longer respect. Destructive criticism is, to me, the mark of a small person who really, deep down, has no self respect and feels they must tear you down to their level. Still, even if I don't respect the person as a person I can still find it in me to respect their criticism if I know that they are more knowledgeable on a given subject than I am. My first MA school was like that. The instructor was a waste of DNA but was very technically proficient. I took his criticism regarding technique but completely ignored him on everything else.

 

[Kacey]

I wonder would you trust the critical opinion of someone you do not necessarily respect?

It depends on what you include when you say "respect". There are people I respect for their technical abilities, while not respecting them as people - so I would trust their critical opinion of my abilities, but not necessarily their critical opinion of non-MA actions. I would love for there to be blanket answer, but the world is not particularly accepting of blanket answers - there's always another scenario out there somewhere.

 

[LanJie]

I think if you have a good teacher they will criticize but not take pleasure in your difficulty.

Sometimes this can situation can be worse when your teachers’ native language is not English.

Your teacher should however always try to help you improve what you are doing.

My best instructor told me how to improve my hurricane kicks when I was young in his system. He gave me a jumping exercise and told me to work on it until I mastered the technique.

He checked my technique and made sure I was practicing it correctly.
I followed his instructions.
I did the exercise 5 times day , 3 days a week ,on each side for six months before my regular classes. My instructor watched my technique every time.

Then one day when I was not expecting it my teacher waited until I finished my training and said, “Add the kick.” I did and now jumping kicks are my specialty.

My teacher helped me with my problem, gave me the advice to fix it, patiently monitored my progress, and then helped me turn a weakness into a specialty.

That is the way to give constructive criticism.

 

[Jenna]

I'm not sure if I could trust the opinion of someone I don't respect... don't see how that's even possible. Why would you even listen to someone that you don't respect?

Imagine a master of high reknown. Master appears (to us as the objective and pragmatic student!) to mete criticism, not in the spirit of student development, but rather as that kind of "dominance ritual" that Sukerkin alluded to earlier.

The problem then is, if such a senior sensei has accumulated such a great mass of plaudits, it becomes difficult for us as the lower rank to feel anything but impudent in disagreeing with that master's opinion.

Confused, I can only think of two options :
1. Take the criticism as valid, being validated by the overwhelming majority of adherents, though the advice still seems ill-intentioned and unhelpful, and assume we, as the student are unnecessarily thin-skinned.
2. Ignore the criticism as badly-intentioned and risk losing a possible opportunity for improvement?

Perhaps there exist other options??

I hope I am still on point and but I sincerely apologise if I have gone off at obtuse angles. Thank you all again
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[theletch1]

Imagine a master of high reknown. Master appears (to us as the objective and pragmatic student!) to mete criticism, not in the spirit of student development, but rather as that kind of "dominance ritual" that Sukerkin alluded to earlier.

The problem then is, if such a senior sensei has accumulated such a great mass of plaudits, it becomes difficult for us as the lower rank to feel anything but impudent in disagreeing with that master's opinion.

Confused, I can only think of two options :
1. Take the criticism as valid, being validated by the overwhelming majority of adherents, though the advice still seems ill-intentioned and unhelpful, and assume we, as the student are unnecessarily thin-skinned.
2. Ignore the criticism as badly-intentioned and risk losing a possible opportunity for improvement?

Perhaps there exist other options??

I hope I am still on point and but I sincerely apologise if I have gone off at obtuse angles. Thank you all again
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Let the harshness of the criticism slide off your back. Chalk it up to having a bad day and store the information contained within the criticism for a later (perhaps much later) day. While you may not see any reason what so ever for the criticism in the moment there may well come a time well down the road where that criticism will become an "ah-ha" moment.

 

[Big Don]

I can and I do, when my performance is not what it should or could be, I own it.
One of our Black Belts is VERY critical, it is just his nature, however, he NEVER does it to be personally mean, only to force us to work harder, practice more, etc. He is no where NEAR as hard on us as he is on himself. He isn't the highest ranked nor is he the most loved, but, there is a deep respect for him, and his skills.

 

[jks9199]

You guys are bang on the money with your comments and the above in particular. And I trust and value your opinions. And actually, I think as I type that trust is maybe a factor?

I wonder would you trust the critical opinion of someone you do not necessarily respect? Or perhaps do not respect as much as you should? I mean, I know we take each criticism on its merit. If this were a medical thing I might get a second opinion and but maybe the analogy would be asking the housemen after the senior consultant's diagnosis I think. Sorry.. attack of the similies.. And but I do value opinions you might have. Thank you sincerely.

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

If I don't respect them, why would I care what they say about me or my performance?

The most damning thing to hear from my teacher is silence. Because that means he's decided that you aren't worth correcting.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Hello all you considered peeps I wonder can you take criticism of your performance? If so, how well?

Is there a point at which you feel criticism becomes harsh, insulting or personal? And if so, what is that boundary for you?

I know we should be open to criticism and but is it possible that we should close our ears to criticism from certain people even if they are higher ranked and vastly more experienced? I mean, have you a way to discern genuine criticism from something else?

Sorry about all the questions and but I would be indebted for any comment. Thank you
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

I've found that not only do I have a problem taking critisism, I have a problem taking a compliment. My Teacher jumped me on this; because, by openly disagreeing with a person that compliments you, you are showing them you don't respect their opinion. On that note, critism is an opinion. Thank them and know the truth is somewhere in between what they said and your infalitbility. LOL
Sean

 

[harlan]

Absolutely not. Just because someone offers something to you, doesn't mean you have to accept it. If someone offered you poisen...would you eat it? The advice of someone you don't respect, especially if it is non-constructive or comes from a place of ill intent, is, for lack of a better word...'klesha'.

If you don't respect someone, don't let their opinions shape you in any way. Besides, until you are at a certain point (presumablely where you can discern whether or not advice/correction is useful), you should only listen to your primary teacher anyway.

I wonder would you trust the critical opinion of someone you do not necessarily respect? Or perhaps do not respect as much as you should? I mean, I know we take each criticism on its merit. If this were a medical thing I might get a second opinion and but maybe the analogy would be asking the housemen after the senior consultant's diagnosis I think. Sorry.. attack of the similies.. And but I do value opinions you might have. Thank you sincerely.

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hello all you considered peeps I wonder can you take criticism of your performance? If so, how well?

Is there a point at which you feel criticism becomes harsh, insulting or personal? And if so, what is that boundary for you?

I know we should be open to criticism and but is it possible that we should close our ears to criticism from certain people even if they are higher ranked and vastly more experienced? I mean, have you a way to discern genuine criticism from something else?

Sorry about all the questions and but I would be indebted for any comment. Thank you
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

I seek out criticism form my Sifus; it is a great way to learn. And they give it too. But as to it being harsh, insulting or personal I feel that is going to be different for different people.

I don't feel a good sifu should use personal insults but I have not yet had one that did IMO. But then I may not take something personally and some one else might

I was once asked if I was serious or playing and told if I’m serious go train if I am not stop wasting his time. It was harsh but I did not take it personally and to be honest I rather appreciated the frankness of it. If you train CMA with a guy born rasied and trained in China and you ask him what he thinks you can bet it will be harsh if he actually cares about your training.