I have a few kicks that have little to no martial value that I'd like to learn to do.
I actually would like to be on a demo team, like the KTigers. Maybe not quite at that high of a level, but maybe a couple of notches below that.
Black Belts and Poor Kicks
- Thread starter Gwai Lo Dan
- Start date
I have a few kicks that have little to no martial value that I'd like to learn to do.
I actually would like to be on a demo team, like the KTigers. Maybe not quite at that high of a level, but maybe a couple of notches below that.
Jaeimseu
3rd Black Belt
I teach and train with a former (maybe last year) member of the Kukkiwon demo team. He can do stuff that I didn't know was possible. The contrast between what we normally think is "really good" and "world class" is striking. If everyone was measured against his skill and technique, there wouldn't be many black belts.
Gwai Lo Dan
3rd Black Belt
I don't think schools TEACH this style as self defence, but when students see "self defence" on the sign ("or self defense" in the U.S. haha) they may equate throwing any kick as self defence. My concern is students doing something like an advancing front leg roudhouse kick, with hands down, ending up 2 feet away from the opponent. Sometimes during drills, I put my fist out very slowly just to get kids thinking about the huge opportunity they are giving someone to simply punch them in the face.
chrispillertkd
Senior Master
Quite possibly, unless he's adept at controlling the distance and working angles. If he's able to sidestep when someone goes in for a double leg, for instance, I'd hate to be the one on the receiving end of his punches to the side of the head. That would be brutal.
Like everything else, it's all a matter of how good you are at what you do and at generalizing your skills to new situations on the fly.
Pax,
Chris
Gwai Lo Dan
3rd Black Belt
You posted a video of board breaking a few pages earlier. It was impressive. Nonetheless, isn't it similar to the fanciest of kicks - looks good, but not a technique you would actually use?
Breaking with a downward motion is easiest given gravity on the boards (no one needs to hold them) and on the user. Plus people use spacers to show more breaking. Why not break 3 with no spacers than 8 with spacers? It's for "show" right?
You will never find yourself in a "real" situation with 10 seconds to focus, not move, then strike straight DOWN (not horizontally outwards) on a stationary object. So would you agree that board breaking is not much different than doing "gymnastic" kicks for testing?
To me, one is a demonstration of power, while the other is demonstration of speed, coordination and agility, but both are in the same camp of being for "show".
You posted a video of board breaking a few pages earlier. It was impressive. Nonetheless, isn't it similar to the fanciest of kicks - looks good, but not a technique you would actually use?
Breaking with a downward motion is easiest given gravity on the boards (no one needs to hold them) and on the user. Plus people use spacers to show more breaking. Why not break 3 with no spacers than 8 with spacers? It's for "show" right?
You will never find yourself in a "real" situation with 10 seconds to focus, not move, then strike straight DOWN (not horizontally outwards) on a stationary object. So would you agree that board breaking is not much different than doing "gymnastic" kicks for testing?
Actually, I prefer to do my breaks horizontally, without any long leadup, for the reasons you've mentioned. But that wasn't possible at the time. The other breaks for that test (knee, elbow, side kick and head butt) were all done horizontally, without leadup.
Gwai Lo Dan
3rd Black Belt
I said you were hard-core when you did "only" 5 slabs because you had hurt your hand. Now you write that you do head-butt breaks too? Damn, that really is hard-core!
Headbutts are a useful close-in technique. So I practice them. And some would say I'm already brain damaged, so there's no risk there...
But you're not going to see me doing kicks with more than about a half turn, as a rule.
I will the self defense talk to the experts...Having said that the YouTube vids posted are not examples of good WTF fighters...they are examples of what not to do...they are not examples of good WTF TKD...We are going to a tournament today as the beginning of our prep for US Open...we will get some rounds in and practice new strategy but we will no take advantage of the lesser skilled...now if a high level fighter shows up strategy changes!
That's cool. I certainly admire anyone who can do amazing physical things. My favorite sport in the summer Olympics is actually gymnastics, not anything martial arts related.
Yeah, if you got hit it would suck. But I really don't don't think he could step into the cage against Ben Henderson and just use his natural talent to fend off takedowns. He'd need a few years of training.
Did you see what happened when Randy Couture fought James Toney? I wouldn't expect much different if Mayweather fought any high-level MMA grappler.
Now that's not a knock on boxing. It's a great tool. But it's just one piece of the puzzle and history has shown us what happens when skilled strikers with no understanding of grappling fight good grapplers.
I'm all for law-abiding citizens carrying a firearm.
I've been meaning to get my concealed carry permit for a while now. I'll do it once I have a little extra money.
Got my eye on the little Ruger LCP.
Metal
Green Belt
I see both regularly. High Dan holders who can do amazing kicks and high Dan holders who can't perform amazing kicks (anymore). Most of the first ones are younger while the latter are mostly older people. And that's the way it is. ;-)
People age and then certain techniques aren't possible anymore. Yet it's even more amazing when people stick to their martial art and adapt it to their physical limitations. Those people have my biggest respect and it's an honor to train with those people and learn from them.
The main coach at my club is a 67 year old 7th Dan and while he doesn't demonstrate any kicking techniques anymore he's one of the best coaches I ever trained with. Some of the people at the club are 70 and older and still attend training. That's the best motivation you can have, IMO.
Of course we also have training sessions for kids and sessions which are focused on younger adults. Yet the training with those older people is something special.
And it's also amazing to see people coming back to Taekwondo after taking a break for several years or people in their 40s starting Taekwondo. It's too bad that this isn't a regular thing in the world of TKD.
Of course, whenever I see a young blackbelt who has terrible technique I wonder how he made it to black belt. ^^
But then I remember that I shouldn't judge others after only seeing a glimpse of their skills or experience.
x
People age and then certain techniques aren't possible anymore. Yet it's even more amazing when people stick to their martial art and adapt it to their physical limitations. Those people have my biggest respect and it's an honor to train with those people and learn from them.
The main coach at my club is a 67 year old 7th Dan and while he doesn't demonstrate any kicking techniques anymore he's one of the best coaches I ever trained with. Some of the people at the club are 70 and older and still attend training. That's the best motivation you can have, IMO.
Of course we also have training sessions for kids and sessions which are focused on younger adults. Yet the training with those older people is something special.
And it's also amazing to see people coming back to Taekwondo after taking a break for several years or people in their 40s starting Taekwondo. It's too bad that this isn't a regular thing in the world of TKD.
Of course, whenever I see a young blackbelt who has terrible technique I wonder how he made it to black belt. ^^
But then I remember that I shouldn't judge others after only seeing a glimpse of their skills or experience.
x
chrispillertkd
Senior Master
You know, my own instructor is a VII dan still an amazing kicker. He had been having some pretty bad knee problems for the past few years and wasn't able to kick as fast or as high as he could and would sometimes have pain in his knees after a workout. Last year he was reading through the list of possible side effects for a medication he was taking and saw on the list "possibility of inflamation of the knee joints" (or words to that effect). Anyway, he then called his doctor and informed him he wasn't going to take that medication anymore and in a few weeks the pain in his knees were gone. Last time I spoke with him on the phone he told me he was back doing spiral kicks (a flying kick where you do a flying side piercing kick and then turn in the air and do a flying back kick before landing) with no problems. He's 64.
My point is, people can stay in shape and do the more difficult techniques as they age through regular practice or, like my instructor, get the ability back if they deal with any physical problem that causes a loss of ability in the first place. Train smarter (and maybe a little harder) and on a regular basis. Gen. Choi was kicking to his own head level in his 80's.
Pax,
Chris
My point is, people can stay in shape and do the more difficult techniques as they age through regular practice or, like my instructor, get the ability back if they deal with any physical problem that causes a loss of ability in the first place. Train smarter (and maybe a little harder) and on a regular basis. Gen. Choi was kicking to his own head level in his 80's.
Pax,
Chris
No it is not, KKW TKD is a complete martial art. Always has been.
Yonsup Kyorugi as sanctioned by the WTF is a sport.
My left leg rear kick suffered for a year while I was training, fighting and coaching on a torn right MCL, I couldn't pivot well on it. Right rear stayed good. Crisp, proper kicks IMO are important for a TKD black belt. They don't have to be high or spinning or jumping or anything but they need to be nice.
Interesting, and how are you defining a 'complete art'?
Poomsae/Kata, several types of sparring, bunkai. How else?
Perhaps we're not on the same page as I have a different definition. Kata is an excellent additon to an art, particularly if proper bunkai is taught, however, many arts don't use this concept of teaching. I would not define their training as lacking because of it. Sparring can also be a fine addition, but only within the context that it is taught i.e. sport sparring is a poor choice for self-defense and vice-versa.
When I think of complete, I'm thinking within the context of the arts purpose. Perhaps from a sport or hobbyest (which is fine) perspective, KKW TKD can be considered complete. I view martial arts more from a self defense perspective so I always think of the art being viable at different combat ranges, ground defense, different options other than striking i.e. locking/throwing/pressing etc, weapons, pre-fight tactics, different clothing, different settings and environmental stimuli etc.
As I've mentioned in the past, perhaps that is one of TKD's strong suits in that it has different aspects for different goals. And perhaps that can also be considered part of being complete. Hmmm..'part' of being 'complete' sounds odd
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