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Black Belts and Poor Kicks
- Thread starter Gwai Lo Dan
- Start date
Got it JKS, won't do it again.
I'd rather have the chance to actually explain the point, which I understood wouldn't be taken for granted when I posted it. Other than that I don't care. Who knows, said person might have learned something or maybe I would have. I think a lot of coaches would agree with it though.
although to be honest I don't think disagreeing with a point I was making is a reasonable justification for negative rep, I wasn't being insulting or rude.
I'd rather have the chance to actually explain the point, which I understood wouldn't be taken for granted when I posted it. Other than that I don't care. Who knows, said person might have learned something or maybe I would have. I think a lot of coaches would agree with it though.
although to be honest I don't think disagreeing with a point I was making is a reasonable justification for negative rep, I wasn't being insulting or rude.
For more on the Reputation System, see this thread.
I think maybe I misunderstood what you meant. By "principles", are you talking about the mindset of fighting? E.g., the heightened alertness, awareness of your (and your opponent's) striking range, ability and willingness to give and take a hit with decent power, etc.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
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To a limited extent MMA competition has shown us arts which are primarily striking or grappling are not complete.
In a broader contect, no (sane) soldier going into combat would want to learn only weaponless styles.
But then again before a discussion such as this could have any sort of sensible dialogue there would first have to be an agreement as to "What is a "Martial Art"".
One might argue that combat or sport specific disciplnes lack elements neccessary to be called an "Art".
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Unfortunately, a question like, "what is a martial art" falls into the same category as;
- What is a black belt?
- How long to black belt?
- How long from one Dan level to the next?
- Is SD better than sport/is sport better than SD?
- How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll sucker?
Unfortunately, a question like, "what is a martial art" falls into the same category as;
Ask 20 different people and you'll likely get 20 different answers. Which is why it is nigh difficult to arrive at a universal answer. Which is why TKD can be pure sport or pure SD. Which is why in Korea a child can earn a BB in a year and in other countries it is 3-5 years for the same belt and other arts maybe not till year 10.
- What is a black belt?
- How long to black belt?
- How long from one Dan level to the next?
- Is SD better than sport/is sport better than SD?
- How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll sucker?
And I don't even know what a Tootsie Roll sucker is! sounds rude (hopefully!)
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LOL! It was an old cartoon commercial when I was a kid. A Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop is like a lolly pop with a tootsie roll at the center. You'd lick your way through the lolly pop and then chew on the center. Funny how useless trivia floats around in the mind:bangahead:
A tootsie..a girl? help me out here, I'm off sick with tonsillitis and need something to really cheer me up lol! Funnily enough everyone else is enjoying the silence because I can't talk, can't imagine why!
Still it gives me time to ponder on what 'poor kicks' are. Some places judge kicks by how technically perfect they look whereas a less perfect looking kick can pack a wallop. Do people want the pretty or the effective?
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Hope you feel better!
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The school where I trained most recently topped out at fifth because the school owner's rank wasn't high enough to grade anyone any higher than that. Good attitude, hard work, and commitment go a long way with him. Students who were over thirty five (and who didn't start at a young age) who reached dan grades tended to kick like thirty five years and older men and women who had been training for three to five years while students who were in their late teens to early twenties who reached dan grades tended to kick like boys and girls in their late teens to early twenties who had been training for the same length of time.
Aside from maxing out the instructor's ability to promote within the organization, there was no upper limit placed on students from what I could tell, regardless of how perfect/high their kicks were. If you were a first dan and you could do Koryo well but couldn't kick higher than mid thigh, then you weren't going to win a pumse competition and probably wouldn't do very well sparring in tournaments, but it would not affect your advancement.
The principles of fighting are distance, timing, positioning. They are the essence of combat in any form and they never change. Having fought both grappling and Taekwondo matches over and over again, those three things are the only common ground and, not coincidentally, by far the most important thing to learn. Even more so when the risk is serious injury rather than giving up a point or getting submitted.
This is more or less why I think the idea of wanting to be complete in the sense of knowing everything is overrated.
Balrog
Master of Arts
What's a bad kick? Let's ignore the flash: no butterfly kicks, no jump side kicks, etc. Let's stick to basic front kick, side kick, round kick and maybe a reverse side kick.
Height is immaterial. Is the kick powerful? Are the mechanics there: chamber, extension, rechamber, recovery? How about focus, balance and hand position? If most of those are missing, then one might say the kick is bad. If they're all there, then it's a good kick.
Height is immaterial. Is the kick powerful? Are the mechanics there: chamber, extension, rechamber, recovery? How about focus, balance and hand position? If most of those are missing, then one might say the kick is bad. If they're all there, then it's a good kick.
OP
Gwai Lo Dan
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- Thread Starter
- #135
I believe that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. The proof of the kick is in the speed, power, and accuracy. Taekwondo is a kicking art, so I don't agree that height is immaterial. In my opinion, if I say "do your best kick to my head and I won't move" and you can't land a kick to my head, you shouldn't be a BB in TKD. TKD is a kicking art. That's not to say that a much lower kick isn't effective, just that to me, a kick to the head is pretty basic.
In terms of the basics "basic front kick, side kick, round kick and maybe a reverse side kick" I think that is a little limited. Given that TKD is a kicking art, I would add spinning hook kick to the mix.
In my post, when I wrote of a "poor" kick, I was thinking of balance and control. I think if you have those, then the corresponding speed, power and accuracy of that kick are there too.
I totally agree, provided we're talking about two fighters of the same height. If you can't get your leg up that high then, barring some legitimate physical impairment, you're just not trying hard enough. I've been pretty lazy lately with my flexibility training and am like a foot and a half off the ground with my splits and can still kick head high.
