BJJ vs Wing Chun (joke joke!)

[Hand Sword]

Yoshi, you're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that BJJ is a nephew to traditional jujutsu and a cousin to judo. I also believe that it's as much wrestling as WC is western boxing. But if you want to over generalize, once again you're undermining the discussion. I will say, though, that since you admit you don't like grappling, can I suggest you take my word for this? I mean, since I, you know, am a grappler. In return, if the conversation turns to chain punching I'll defer to you.

Apologies for typos if any. Posting from phone.

STEVE!!!!!!!!! EVERYONE!!! Please!!
:feedtroll

Just let it go and die dudes and dudettes.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Yea you had a typo on on judo,Yoshiyahu,generalize BJJ Boxing and WC. But I edited it for you an mae the corrections...So I hope your happy...Did you see the definition i shared for wrestiling and grappling...But let me state I dont like ground grappling.

Yoshi, you're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that BJJ is a nephew to traditional jujutsu and a cousin to judo. I also believe that it's as much wrestling as WC is western boxing. But if you want to over generalize, once again you're undermining the discussion. I will say, though, that since you admit you don't like grappling, can I suggest you take my word for this? I mean, since I, you know, am a grappler. In return, if the conversation turns to chain punching I'll defer to you.Apologies for typos if any. Posting from phone.

You called me a troll how mean...I dont like being called a troll how mean!

Originally Posted by Hand Sword STEVE!!!!!!!!! EVERYONE!!! Please!!
:feedtroll

Just let it go and die dudes and dudettes.

 

[MJS]

Oh but I am saying a specialist usually sticks with one Art. An he is more proficient at the one art than someone who practices five arts including the one he trains. But as for cross training because you enjoy it...or grappling because you like grappling...thats nothing wrong with it. But it all depends on your motives. Is it because you want to be a better fighter. Or a better Tournament fighter. If you want to fight in the cage or mma tournments. True you better get a ground game...But if you want to be able perfect your Gung Fu or Karate...then you need to specialize in it for decades. So that way you will be tough fighter not many can rival with!

Did you read my post...its nothing wrong with grappling. An if you were a good grappler before learning WC then you may be able to fuse the two...But you will be a better fighter on the ground than standing up in my opinion. Me personally I dont care for the ground. i never liked the idea of rolling around on the ground with another men trying to get him into a submissive posistion. But I know in the street it could be useful to use some of the techs for breaking limbs and neck breaks. But also one could study from a qualified Chin Na Specialist and have some of the same techniques standing. But as for Grappling and Wing Chun mixing. I dont think it would be wing chun anymore...in my opinion it would be something else. But if it works for you great. I personally never was good at grappling an since I dont know many grapplers right now I dont have sparring practice I need to advoid take downs and defeat standing with gloves on probably. Now in a street fight. I would because I would cheat. But in street there is no such thing as cheating.

But Like I said I never was good at ground fighting...So I never really invested in it. I never really seen the point of rolling on the ground. As a child I always loved Watching Kung Fu movies and Bruce lee movies. But I hated watching wrestling. So since I dislike wrestling that may be the reason why im not good at it. Because I dont practice it. But I would love to spar Wrestlers on regular basis. In about five years of sparring a wrestler on a regular basis then I would be able to advoid a take down from any grappler on my skill level or below. Now a grappler who is more skilled than I am...Welll any fighter with more skills and strength will probably win. Thats the name of game. The one with the most skills wins.

I dont expect to be able to defeat a WC guy who has been practicing WC for thirty years eight hours a day since he was five. But the same applies to someone who has been studing TKD for thirty years and is able to use his hands and feet in street fights successfully. Not just point sparring.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu
I think you got your idea all wrong. A specialist is someone who specializes in one art. A specialist is compared to purist. An non-specialist is someone who studies a little bit of everything. Specialist only do what they specialise in. While a General doctor may do a variety of different things in different areas. You have people who make all types of swords. An you have those who specialize in making one type Authenic Japanese Sword made for combat. The specialist only makes one type of sword. The Mixed Sword makers makes all kinds of swords. You have someone who specializes in boxing. An you have someone who practices Muay Thai,Boxing, and BJJ.


Remember the movie The five deadly Venoms.

There was sixth student who train in all five styles. But he was no match to fight one of the original Five Venoms because he didn't specialize in one their arts.

See if you can follow this. Pretty much every art out there addresses certain areas of fighting. Kenpo has techs. to deal with weapons, grabs, chokes, punches, grappling attacks, etc. A wide assortment of things, but I would not say that it specializes in one particular thing. Now, lets take BJJ, where the main focus is on the ground. I have not seen much if any foucs at all on punching and kicking and this should be very apparent by watching Royce.

So, my point of this, while our arts focus on many things, if we wanted to improve on the weapons work, we'd need to go to a weapon based art, the same with the ground.

Just because someone trains in one art, does not mean that it always specializes in one thing.

 

[MJS]

What is BJJ but Brazilian Jitjiusu?

Is Brazil located in China or Africa? How is Brazil not western? Was it not Westerners or descendants of Westerners who reformed JJJ or AikiJuijitsu into Brazilian Jiujitsu? Wasn't Brazilian Jitjitsu refined and developed from the Gracie Famil via Maeda? Aren't the Gracies considered Westerners? What ethnicity and nationality is Gracie?


Isnt ground fighting another form of wrestling...or Ground grappling...Why isnt BJJ not wrestling...Is not BJJ a derivitive of Judo and Japanese Jujustu. Wasn't Maeda the one who taught Kano Jiu-Jitsu to Carlos Gracie. Isn't Carlos Gracie the founder of BJJ. His brothers along with him are co-founders They are: Helio Gracie who learn when he got older and healthier, Osvaldo, Gastão and Jorge.

The Gracice Family are the ones who Develop Their system. They refined their techniques for ground fighting. The idea behind the grappling on the ground is to give a smaller opponent an advantage against bigger stronger opponent who is more skilled in striking. A stronger foe has superior reach and more powerful strikes. On the ground a BJJ Specialist can use his techniques to out manuever a striker and gaining the dominant posistion. Then pass the foes guards to dominate from the top posistion. Or when on the bottom use the guard posistion to defend. Once you have a dominate posistion then manipulate your foe so you gain a choke hold,submission or joint lock. This is BJJ is it not? I Just don't care for it. It sounds like a great art...But realistically I wouldnt use it accept for sparring wrestlers.

I wouldnt use it in the streets. I would never feel comfortable using a ground game in the streets. But using Chang Quan against numerous attackers I would feel more comfortable. So I think to cross train I would choose something like Changquan or TKD or Hung Gar. Just my thoughts of course. Its my mere small inkling of an opinion. Don't mean to offend. Personally BJJ is not for me. My mind doesn't mesh well with BJJ.

My personal Opinion or Point of View of Brazilian Jujitsu:


So in my thoughts BJJ is just Wrestling or (Ground Fighting or Grappling).

I don't care for ground stuff. Its just me. If I did I would have stayed in Aikido and Judo. I never really liked that stuff. I asked my parents as a kid to get me into karate or kung fu. Instead I got Aikido for like six months. An then there was Judo for awhile. I hated that stuff. But it was cool it gave me something to do. I never liked it an found it utterly useless by it self. I mean maybe If I got a black belt in Aikido it may be useful. But With Striking arts its easier to prevail because everyone in the streets is a striker from birth where I come from. That way knowing a little something even at a white belt level will give you an edge if you already a striker.

You say BJJ is not Wrestling?


According to merriam webster wrestling is:

Wrestling = "a sport or contest in which two unarmed individuals struggle hand to hand with each attempting to subdue or unbalance the other "

Grappling = "transitive verb 1 : to seize with or as if with a grapple 2 : to come to grips with : wrestle 3 : to bind closely"

www.m-w.com


Please lighten up don't be so over critical of everything I say. No need to be offended because I dislike how an art looks!





I am familiar with Shuao Jiao. As for western fighters. Wrestling is what westerners are most noted for. Striking arts are more note worthy from easterners. I simply dislike Wrestling I just don't care for it. Never have. I always loved watching people flow in standing combat from one hand or foot technique to other. I love to see throws and joint locks from a standing posistion. Even sweeps and take downs are great to me. But in life threathen fluent flowing combat, My goal will be to break or unconscious my opponent. Not Submit or choke out my opponent. The only place I could phatom using BJJ is if I were to break into someones home an do something illegal or immoral to a person who is alone. But as for actual street encounters or someone breaking in to my home. I my main goal would be to hurt him them bad. If they wrestle me to ground. I will bite skin from their ankle,groin,thigh,nipple,eye,jaw bone,ear,adams apple. If I got one hand free an they are in the dominant posistion. I trying to pull off their lip,ear,poke their eyes,squeeze and rip the groin, squeeze the throat and or maybe break a limb if I have the leverage from on bottom.

Thats why I am fascinated with Tiger Claw. I have been reluctant to asked my Sifu to train me in Tiger Claw. Because I am not ready to start a whole nother style. But I would love the kung which is the crushing power. I heard some people have such strong crushing power they can crush a hard baseball. With that sorta of power in my hands. A wrestler adams apple, scrotums or even the sides of their kidneys would be my target on the bottom posistion. I am also fascinated with piercing fingers like for snake fighters. Because having two kungs like that would be useful to end ground fights quickly if they ever happen in the street. Simple crust or thrust your fingers through a soft spot...

But I know to do so would take alot of work an dedication and training to maintain and achieve. But it would be worth it an enhance ones Wing Chun Seven fold.

But I never cared for being on the ground. I dont really like it!

Changed my mind. I had a reply, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it was pointless to reply.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Okay using BJJ whats the best defense against a Kwan Dao sword?



Also what arts do you study that specifically deals with weapons?

See if you can follow this. Pretty much every art out there addresses certain areas of fighting. Kenpo has techs. to deal with weapons, grabs, chokes, punches, grappling attacks, etc. A wide assortment of things, but I would not say that it specializes in one particular thing. Now, lets take BJJ, where the main focus is on the ground. I have not seen much if any foucs at all on punching and kicking and this should be very apparent by watching Royce.

So, my point of this, while our arts focus on many things, if we wanted to improve on the weapons work, we'd need to go to a weapon based art, the same with the ground.

Just because someone trains in one art, does not mean that it always specializes in one thing.

 

[Steve]

STEVE!!!!!!!!! EVERYONE!!! Please!!
:feedtroll

Just let it go and die dudes and dudettes.

Of course you're right. I just can't help myself!

 

[profesormental]

Okay using BJJ whats the best defense against a Kwan Dao sword?

What kind of question is that?

I stopped posting, yet MAN! What is the point that you want to make?

What knowledge do you want to impart? What do you want to learn?

This is the path of pointless exploration. If you're just bored, then I would understand, because I could see the humor in messing around like this. But MAN! A frikin Kwan Dao?

Yet there are much more important questions, issues and discussions that we can invest our time in.

Man... a Kwan Dao...

 

[jarrod]

i like to enjoy a good grappling workout, then go to my favorite chinese restaurant & order a plate of General Kwon Dao's Chicken. hm-mm! that's i deal with a Kwon Dao attack.

jf

 

[MJS]

Okay using BJJ whats the best defense against a Kwan Dao sword?

Now if this isn't a fine example of you contradicting yourself, I dont know what is. Here you are again, with your style vs. style debates. Yet in this post, you said:

"But the whole idea of which style is better is nonsense...there are no unbeatable styles. Maybe an unbeatable fighter. But not style...WC is not even a style of Kung Fu...its a system."

You sure you're not trolling? You really need to stop posting such crazy stuff like that. Keep on violating those forum rules though.

Also what arts do you study that specifically deals with weapons?

The FMAs, such as Arnis, Kali, etc. While they contain some devastating empty hand stuff, they are primarily weapon based arts. My use and understanding of the blade and stick have grown tenfold, since I've been training in Arnis.

 

[skinters]

What kind of question is that?

I stopped posting, yet MAN! What is the point that you want to make?

What knowledge do you want to impart? What do you want to learn?

This is the path of pointless exploration. If you're just bored, then I would understand, because I could see the humor in messing around like this. But MAN! A frikin Kwan Dao?

Yet there are much more important questions, issues and discussions that we can invest our time in.

Man... a Kwan Dao...

this is exaclty why i have said the posts are aimless and confusing,there is so much understanding and depth to be debated over with the basics alone.

the whole wingchun board needs to be cleaned up,im looking at some of it trying to get my head around an answer to some of these random topics.

keep posting prof,i appreciate your input.

 

[qwksilver61]

If it's any consolation The EBMAS school is incorporating Wing Tzun into ground fighting....pretty good stuff...imagine mansau-wusau with your legs on the ground..there are also dismount techniques we were shown right off the bat at the last seminar...cool stuff...

 

[dungeonworks]

If it's any consolation The EBMAS school is incorporating Wing Tzun into ground fighting....pretty good stuff...imagine mansau-wusau with your legs on the ground..there are also dismount techniques we were shown right off the bat at the last seminar...cool stuff...

We've messed with those type of things on the ground too and I thought to myself, "Hey, this would mesh really well with BJJ!". I posted a thread about it and BAM!!! TRAINWRECK!!! :ultracool

Ah well, some people get it and some people never will, until they get beat up for real.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Well I would like to learn from your experiences and opinions. Anyway as for freaking kwan dao. I here that you guys defend against weapons. I was thinking of investing in Kwan Dao knife. I want to know what possible defense against Kwand Dao knife would be please share?


AS for trolling...What we eat is humans...fee fi fo fum I spell the blood of English man. Feed me I am the troll that lies beneath the streets.


:dalek:

What kind of question is that?

I stopped posting, yet MAN! What is the point that you want to make?

What knowledge do you want to impart? What do you want to learn?

This is the path of pointless exploration. If you're just bored, then I would understand, because I could see the humor in messing around like this. But MAN! A frikin Kwan Dao?

Yet there are much more important questions, issues and discussions that we can invest our time in.

Man... a Kwan Dao...

 

[Hand Sword]

Well I would like to learn from your experiences and opinions. Anyway as for freaking kwan dao. I here that you guys defend against weapons. I was thinking of investing in Kwan Dao knife. I want to know what possible defense against Kwand Dao knife would be please share?

:lol: :lol: :lol: Now, that's Funny and a load of :bs:

AS for trolling...What we eat is humans...fee fi fo fum I spell the blood of English man. Feed me I am the troll that lies beneath the streets.


:dalek:

And you actually asked me why I called you a troll???????

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Handsword are there any arts that wouldnt mesh with WC well...

Are there any ground arts that would hinder a wing chun fighter in your opinion. Are do you believe all ground arts can mesh perfectly with wing chun?

:lol: :lol: :lol: Now, that's Funny and a load of :bs:


And you actually asked me why I called you a troll???????

 

[KamonGuy2]

Handsword are there any arts that wouldnt mesh with WC well...

Are there any ground arts that would hinder a wing chun fighter in your opinion. Are do you believe all ground arts can mesh perfectly with wing chun?

I go away for three days and a thread explodes… Guys, what is going on?
No art has the answer to everything
Yoshi – what an insanely stupid question about the sword. What if I came at you with a tank? (that’s rhetorical Yoshi, don’t spend the whole week coming up with an answer)
Stevebjj – don’t let people get to you. BJJ is a fantastic art, trained by humble guys
BJJ works, simple as that.
It is a great companion to wing chun. When you train it in a gym etc, of course you are going to be ‘rolling around on the floor’. But they also train in realism (no gi training etc)
But like everything, you take what works for you from an art. I’ll never be a black belt in BJJ or compete in tournaments, but I train enough of it so that if I am taking to the floor suddenly, I can get out of the situation or get into a better position to use my strikes.
Let’s all take a deep breath and relax. Chunners – go and practice some SLT…

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Thank you very much...with that i take it you guys feel the kwan dao has no defense against it even with another weapon...great. i am glad to hear that...i hope mostly other Wing Chunners and BJJ people think as you do. I will invest in a Kwan Dao as well with combat steel. So if i decide to attack people who think like you...there is no defense...thank you for your input...

As for trolling...i may not be on here much longer...i may be banned....many of you guys dont like me or my post...so i feel this forum is not the place for me. i look forward to wing chun forums being created by Wing Chun purist. but until then i will have to go to other forums...

my trolling is me coming truthfully with my thoughts and experiences.

you guys truly anger me.

I go away for three days and a thread explodes… Guys, what is going on?
No art has the answer to everything
Yoshi – what an insanely stupid question about the sword. What if I came at you with a tank? (that’s rhetorical Yoshi, don’t spend the whole week coming up with an answer)
Stevebjj – don’t let people get to you. BJJ is a fantastic art, trained by humble guys
BJJ works, simple as that.
It is a great companion to wing chun. When you train it in a gym etc, of course you are going to be ‘rolling around on the floor’. But they also train in realism (no gi training etc)
But like everything, you take what works for you from an art. I’ll never be a black belt in BJJ or compete in tournaments, but I train enough of it so that if I am taking to the floor suddenly, I can get out of the situation or get into a better position to use my strikes.
Let’s all take a deep breath and relax. Chunners – go and practice some SLT…

 

[elder999]

Thank you very much...with that i take it you guys feel the kwan dao has no defense against it even with another weapon...great. i am glad to hear that...i hope mostly other Wing Chunners and BJJ people think as you do. I will invest in a Kwan Dao as well with combat steel. So if i decide to attack people who think like you...there is no defense...thank you for your input...

.

Glock. :lfao:

As for trolling...i may not be on here much longer...i may be banned
you guys truly anger me.

Okay, buh-bye, and take yer little red wagon with you, m'kay? :lfao:

 

[Yoshiyahu]

first real answer...wow...not too many people even wanna touch that subject. I was just woundering.

Glock. :lfao:



Okay, buh-bye, and take yer little red wagon with you, m'kay? :lfao:

 

[Steve]

Thank you very much...with that i take it you guys feel the kwan dao has no defense against it even with another weapon...great. i am glad to hear that...i hope mostly other Wing Chunners and BJJ people think as you do. I will invest in a Kwan Dao as well with combat steel. So if i decide to attack people who think like you...there is no defense...thank you for your input...

I have no idea what the hell a kwan dao is. Is that a style of kung fu?

As for trolling...i may not be on here much longer...i may be banned....many of you guys dont like me or my post...so i feel this forum is not the place for me. i look forward to wing chun forums being created by Wing Chun purist. but until then i will have to go to other forums...

I sincerely hope you find what you're looking for in an online community. If not here, then somewhere else. Seriously.