BJJ vs Wing Chun (joke joke!)

[MJS]

I think you got your idea all wrong. A specialist is someone who specializes in one art. A specialist is compared to purist. An non-specialist is someone who studies a little bit of everything. Specialist only do what they specialise in. While a General doctor may do a variety of different things in different areas. You have people who make all types of swords. An you have those who specialize in making one type Authenic Japanese Sword made for combat. The specialist only makes one type of sword. The Mixed Sword makers makes all kinds of swords. You have someone who specializes in boxing. An you have someone who practices Muay Thai,Boxing, and BJJ.


Remember the movie The five deadly Venoms.

There was sixth student who train in all five styles. But he was no match to fight one of the original Five Venoms because he didn't specialize in one their arts.

My God, I can't believe we're still talking about this. The whole idea is whether or not you can use WC and its grappling methods or if you need to go to someone who grapples. I said in another post, that pretty much every art has its methods of dealing with a grappler, BUT, if you want to improve on that area, you will need to go to a grappling based art.

If you want to crosstrain, do it. If you don't, then don't.

 

[bs10927]

My God, I can't believe we're still talking about this. The whole idea is whether or not you can use WC and its grappling methods or if you need to go to someone who grapples. I said in another post, that pretty much every art has its methods of dealing with a grappler, BUT, if you want to improve on that area, you will need to go to a grappling based art.

If you want to crosstrain, do it. If you don't, then don't.

Please explain...lol...just kiddin

 

[Yoshiyahu]

The question is do you try the new things as much as your favorites? Or do you eat your favorites more?

It depends. I love trying new things and while I have favorites, I try new foods all the time.

Funny story (at least, funny to me). My 13 year old son came home from school one day, just a few weeks ago, and said, "Why didn't you ever make me eat tomato soup!??! I had tomato soup at school today and loved it! We never have tomato soup at home!" He was indignant, until I pointed out that we have tomato soup in the cupboard and I've tried to make it for him many times in the past. When I suggested it, though, it was always, "Yuck. I don't like tomato soup."

My point is that what's being said is often less important than who is saying it.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Oh but I am saying a specialist usually sticks with one Art. An he is more proficient at the one art than someone who practices five arts including the one he trains. But as for cross training because you enjoy it...or grappling because you like grappling...thats nothing wrong with it. But it all depends on your motives. Is it because you want to be a better fighter. Or a better Tournament fighter. If you want to fight in the cage or mma tournments. True you better get a ground game...But if you want to be able perfect your Gung Fu or Karate...then you need to specialize in it for decades. So that way you will be tough fighter not many can rival with!

Did you read my post...its nothing wrong with grappling. An if you were a good grappler before learning WC then you may be able to fuse the two...But you will be a better fighter on the ground than standing up in my opinion. Me personally I dont care for the ground. i never liked the idea of rolling around on the ground with another men trying to get him into a submissive posistion. But I know in the street it could be useful to use some of the techs for breaking limbs and neck breaks. But also one could study from a qualified Chin Na Specialist and have some of the same techniques standing. But as for Grappling and Wing Chun mixing. I dont think it would be wing chun anymore...in my opinion it would be something else. But if it works for you great. I personally never was good at grappling an since I dont know many grapplers right now I dont have sparring practice I need to advoid take downs and defeat standing with gloves on probably. Now in a street fight. I would because I would cheat. But in street there is no such thing as cheating.

But Like I said I never was good at ground fighting...So I never really invested in it. I never really seen the point of rolling on the ground. As a child I always loved Watching Kung Fu movies and Bruce lee movies. But I hated watching wrestling. So since I dislike wrestling that may be the reason why im not good at it. Because I dont practice it. But I would love to spar Wrestlers on regular basis. In about five years of sparring a wrestler on a regular basis then I would be able to advoid a take down from any grappler on my skill level or below. Now a grappler who is more skilled than I am...Welll any fighter with more skills and strength will probably win. Thats the name of game. The one with the most skills wins.

I dont expect to be able to defeat a WC guy who has been practicing WC for thirty years eight hours a day since he was five. But the same applies to someone who has been studing TKD for thirty years and is able to use his hands and feet in street fights successfully. Not just point sparring.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshiyahu
I think you got your idea all wrong. A specialist is someone who specializes in one art. A specialist is compared to purist. An non-specialist is someone who studies a little bit of everything. Specialist only do what they specialise in. While a General doctor may do a variety of different things in different areas. You have people who make all types of swords. An you have those who specialize in making one type Authenic Japanese Sword made for combat. The specialist only makes one type of sword. The Mixed Sword makers makes all kinds of swords. You have someone who specializes in boxing. An you have someone who practices Muay Thai,Boxing, and BJJ.


Remember the movie The five deadly Venoms.

There was sixth student who train in all five styles. But he was no match to fight one of the original Five Venoms because he didn't specialize in one their arts.

My God, I can't believe we're still talking about this. The whole idea is whether or not you can use WC and its grappling methods or if you need to go to someone who grapples. I said in another post, that pretty much every art has its methods of dealing with a grappler, BUT, if you want to improve on that area, you will need to go to a grappling based art.

If you want to crosstrain, do it. If you don't, then don't.

 

[Hand Sword]

Have a look at Sijes posts. She insists that she will never be taken to the ground.
I can understand people who keep their feet well. If you youtube Kevin Chan at SENI in 2008 you will see him pretty much keeping his feet against another black belt in BJJ, but after a while even he goes to ground

I keep repeating the points, but I'm starting to think that I'm the only chunner posting who has had reall confrontations/fights. I'm a big guy and can hold my stance well, but I have been pushed up against cars, fallen over a bar stool during a tussle, been dragged to the floor by bouncers

I sound like a bit of a yob, but i'm not. I'm a nice guy that gets into bad situations!

Exactly my point! These posters are trolling IMHO. They speak in absolutes, when in real life there is no such thing. It changes from 1/2 second to 1/2 second. There no such thing as "never" whether it's the ability to not being taken down (even against multiple attackers) or whatever. Having the mindset that they do, and posts they way that they do leads me to the same conclusion--NO REAL EXPERIENCE, in spite of claims of having it. So, it's just arguing to keep an argument going. It's a dead issue. Allow them to live in a perfect bubble world as they are not interested in the least of expanding knowledge or themselves. I think we all have indulged them enough, and beyond so!

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

BJJ sucks and WC sucks even more! :redeme:

 

[Hand Sword]

That's right! We ALL know that Kempo rules. So, it's all a moot point!

 

[Hagakure]

That's right! We ALL know that Kempo rules. So, it's all a moot point!

Quite true, except, that MY WC is better than your Kempo. Because I say so.

I cannot believe, that this, has happened again, SO SOON after the last one? I'm staggered. I'm sat here smiling, through bewilderment, that a group of people, with generally a like mind, have come together to argue about nothing again. However. Don't let me stop you, I'm watching the train wreck that this may become.

Hold on guys 'n' girls, just off to the kitchen to get the popcorn. Anyone fancies coming round to watch, you're more than welcome.

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Hold on guys 'n' girls, just off to the kitchen to get the popcorn. Anyone fancies coming round to watch, you're more than welcome.

Me me me!

 

[KamonGuy2]

Yeah but who would win in a fight between Bruce Lee and Muhammed Ali...?

Just thought I'd randomly contribute something...

We're talking about BJJ and wing chun? Oh! Ok then...

As I have said before, just get along to a BJJ class, work out with some of the guys there and you'll start to see how useful BJJ can be to your art
Don't go in trying to analyze how you would 'beat up the BJJ instructor', just get some of the basics and you might understand what I'm saying

Thankyou MJS, stevebjj, etc for your useful posts. It is good to discuss these topics, even though they tend to derail or implode, because some chunners are so brainwashed by their champion sifu that they will not go and look around (or in some cases like Jim Fungs academy - forbidden to look around)

It is a testament to wing chun stubborness that the wc + BJJ thread was 20 something pages long

Good day to you all...

 

[Hagakure]

Me me me!

Cool, my mobile is 079... no wait... bad idea.

PM me, we can arrange it then. Lol.

KG, obviously, Bruce Lee would win. *rolls eyes*

 

[bs10927]

Yeah but who would win in a fight between Bruce Lee and Muhammed Ali...?

Just thought I'd randomly contribute something...

We're talking about BJJ and wing chun? Oh! Ok then...

As I have said before, just get along to a BJJ class, work out with some of the guys there and you'll start to see how useful BJJ can be to your art
Don't go in trying to analyze how you would 'beat up the BJJ instructor', just get some of the basics and you might understand what I'm saying

Thankyou MJS, stevebjj, etc for your useful posts. It is good to discuss these topics, even though they tend to derail or implode, because some chunners are so brainwashed by their champion sifu that they will not go and look around (or in some cases like Jim Fungs academy - forbidden to look around)

It is a testament to wing chun stubborness that the wc + BJJ thread was 20 something pages long

Good day to you all...

but....but....my sifu said not to fall down....lol

 

[skinters]

let the thread run,nobody has said anything out of order. its gone from arguing and bitching, to over the top politicly polite wise.

someone remind us all what the original thread was about,and go from there,its easy to look back on the thread to see why and who couldnt have an adult conversation.

cmon lets makes a bit of history and be the first to get somewhere with all this .you never know you might suprise yourselves.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Oh hey...I am not brainwashed. I really just dislike Wrestling and Western Martial Arts. I never liked Western Fighting much. I dont think much of it. I am sure its really good. I just perfer not to train or watch western fighting. It bores me.

So for me I could not say BJJ is bad art. Even if it was the only undefeatable art in whole world. I still wouldn't care for it. Because I always disliked wrestling!

Yeah but who would win in a fight between Bruce Lee and Muhammed Ali...?

Just thought I'd randomly contribute something...

We're talking about BJJ and wing chun? Oh! Ok then...

As I have said before, just get along to a BJJ class, work out with some of the guys there and you'll start to see how useful BJJ can be to your art
Don't go in trying to analyze how you would 'beat up the BJJ instructor', just get some of the basics and you might understand what I'm saying

Thankyou MJS, stevebjj, etc for your useful posts. It is good to discuss these topics, even though they tend to derail or implode, because some chunners are so brainwashed by their champion sifu that they will not go and look around (or in some cases like Jim Fungs academy - forbidden to look around)

It is a testament to wing chun stubborness that the wc + BJJ thread was 20 something pages long

Good day to you all...

 

[Steve]

Oh hey...I am not brainwashed. I really just dislike Wrestling and Western Martial Arts. I never liked Western Fighting much. I dont think much of it. I am sure its really good. I just perfer not to train or watch western fighting. It bores me.

So for me I could not say BJJ is bad art. Even if it was the only undefeatable art in whole world. I still wouldn't care for it. Because I always disliked wrestling!

For what it's worth, BJJ is neither Western nor Wrestling. Ask Josh Barnett and he'll tell you all about the differences between BJJ and Wrestling (specifically Catch as Catch Can Wrestling).

That's like saying, I hate boxing and I hate Western Arts. So, you'll never see me train Wing Chun. But no offense.

 

[skinters]

Oh hey...I am not brainwashed. I really just dislike Wrestling and Western Martial Arts. I never liked Western Fighting much. I dont think much of it. I am sure its really good. I just perfer not to train or watch western fighting. It bores me.

So for me I could not say BJJ is bad art. Even if it was the only undefeatable art in whole world. I still wouldn't care for it. Because I always disliked wrestling!

yosh

shuai jiao is a chinese wrestling style orginating in china.which is about the earliest examples.it is also chinas first martial art.

you also have wrestling from almost every country in the world,greek roman, from the earliest.up to the present day wrestling is not BJJ .

the word wrestling is an old english word which means hand to hand combat.

dont mean to dish out a history lesson,but what you assume as being purely western is quite the opposite.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

What is BJJ but Brazilian Jitjiusu?

Is Brazil located in China or Africa? How is Brazil not western? Was it not Westerners or descendants of Westerners who reformed JJJ or AikiJuijitsu into Brazilian Jiujitsu? Wasn't Brazilian Jitjitsu refined and developed from the Gracie Famil via Maeda? Aren't the Gracies considered Westerners? What ethnicity and nationality is Gracie?


Isnt ground fighting another form of wrestling...or Ground grappling...Why isnt BJJ not wrestling...Is not BJJ a derivitive of Judo and Japanese Jujustu. Wasn't Maeda the one who taught Kano Jiu-Jitsu to Carlos Gracie. Isn't Carlos Gracie the founder of BJJ. His brothers along with him are co-founders They are: Helio Gracie who learn when he got older and healthier, Osvaldo, Gastão and Jorge.

The Gracice Family are the ones who Develop Their system. They refined their techniques for ground fighting. The idea behind the grappling on the ground is to give a smaller opponent an advantage against bigger stronger opponent who is more skilled in striking. A stronger foe has superior reach and more powerful strikes. On the ground a BJJ Specialist can use his techniques to out manuever a striker and gaining the dominant posistion. Then pass the foes guards to dominate from the top posistion. Or when on the bottom use the guard posistion to defend. Once you have a dominate posistion then manipulate your foe so you gain a choke hold,submission or joint lock. This is BJJ is it not? I Just don't care for it. It sounds like a great art...But realistically I wouldnt use it accept for sparring wrestlers.

I wouldnt use it in the streets. I would never feel comfortable using a ground game in the streets. But using Chang Quan against numerous attackers I would feel more comfortable. So I think to cross train I would choose something like Changquan or TKD or Hung Gar. Just my thoughts of course. Its my mere small inkling of an opinion. Don't mean to offend. Personally BJJ is not for me. My mind doesn't mesh well with BJJ.

My personal Opinion or Point of View of Brazilian Jujitsu:

I personally dislike Wrestling. I always have. I hated watching Wrestling on Television with Andre the Giant, Hulk Hogan and many others when I was a child. My Friends would be all into it. I never liked it. I even hung out with a wrestling clique when I was in Junior High. But I always went to striking to defeat other kids in the group. I never did like the whole ground thing. We did it for fun. But I never really was at any good at the ground thing because I don't like it. I started watching UFC until they started having a whole lot of ground fighting. When I started seeing the Gracies beating the karate guys all the time. Thats when i stop watching UFC. I enjoyed seeing other striking styles fight. But I never like to see guys on the ground wrestling and rolling. I can do it But I just don't enjoy it. I never cared for ground fighting. It may be a great art. But not for me!

So in my thoughts BJJ is just Wrestling or (Ground Fighting or Grappling).

I don't care for ground stuff. Its just me. If I did I would have stayed in Aikido and Judo. I never really liked that stuff. I asked my parents as a kid to get me into karate or kung fu. Instead I got Aikido for like six months. An then there was Judo for awhile. I hated that stuff. But it was cool it gave me something to do. I never liked it an found it utterly useless by it self. I mean maybe If I got a black belt in Aikido it may be useful. But With Striking arts its easier to prevail because everyone in the streets is a striker from birth where I come from. That way knowing a little something even at a white belt level will give you an edge if you already a striker.

You say BJJ is not Wrestling?


According to merriam webster wrestling is:

Wrestling = "a sport or contest in which two unarmed individuals struggle hand to hand with each attempting to subdue or unbalance the other "

Grappling = "transitive verb 1 : to seize with or as if with a grapple 2 : to come to grips with : wrestle 3 : to bind closely"

www.m-w.com


Please lighten up don't be so over critical of everything I say. No need to be offended because I dislike how an art looks!

For what it's worth, BJJ is neither Western nor Wrestling. Ask Josh Barnett and he'll tell you all about the differences between BJJ and Wrestling (specifically Catch as Catch Can Wrestling).

That's like saying, I hate boxing and I hate Western Arts. So, you'll never see me train Wing Chun. But no offense.

I am familiar with Shuao Jiao. As for western fighters. Wrestling is what westerners are most noted for. Striking arts are more note worthy from easterners. I simply dislike Wrestling I just don't care for it. Never have. I always loved watching people flow in standing combat from one hand or foot technique to other. I love to see throws and joint locks from a standing posistion. Even sweeps and take downs are great to me. But in life threathen fluent flowing combat, My goal will be to break or unconscious my opponent. Not Submit or choke out my opponent. The only place I could phatom using BJJ is if I were to break into someones home an do something illegal or immoral to a person who is alone. But as for actual street encounters or someone breaking in to my home. I my main goal would be to hurt him them bad. If they wrestle me to ground. I will bite skin from their ankle,groin,thigh,nipple,eye,jaw bone,ear,adams apple. If I got one hand free an they are in the dominant posistion. I trying to pull off their lip,ear,poke their eyes,squeeze and rip the groin, squeeze the throat and or maybe break a limb if I have the leverage from on bottom.

Thats why I am fascinated with Tiger Claw. I have been reluctant to asked my Sifu to train me in Tiger Claw. Because I am not ready to start a whole nother style. But I would love the kung which is the crushing power. I heard some people have such strong crushing power they can crush a hard baseball. With that sorta of power in my hands. A wrestler adams apple, scrotums or even the sides of their kidneys would be my target on the bottom posistion. I am also fascinated with piercing fingers like for snake fighters. Because having two kungs like that would be useful to end ground fights quickly if they ever happen in the street. Simple crust or thrust your fingers through a soft spot...

But I know to do so would take alot of work an dedication and training to maintain and achieve. But it would be worth it an enhance ones Wing Chun Seven fold.

But I never cared for being on the ground. I dont really like it!

yosh

shuai jiao is a chinese wrestling style orginating in china.which is about the earliest examples.it is also chinas first martial art.

you also have wrestling from almost every country in the world,greek roman, from the earliest.up to the present day wrestling is not BJJ .

the word wrestling is an old english word which means hand to hand combat.

dont mean to dish out a history lesson,but what you assume as being purely western is quite the opposite.

 

[Hand Sword]

but....but....my sifu said not to fall down....lol

It's ok! Don't worry. You won't have to fall down. This is the world of "perfect" where there is no going down-ever! So, you're invincible! No worries!

 

[Steve]

Yoshi, you're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that BJJ is a nephew to traditional jujutsu and a cousin to judo. I also believe that it's as much wrestling as WC is western boxing. But if you want to over generalize, once again you're undermining the discussion. I will say, though, that since you admit you don't like grappling, can I suggest you take my word for this? I mean, since I, you know, am a grappler. In return, if the conversation turns to chain punching I'll defer to you.

Apologies for typos if any. Posting from phone.

 

[Carol]

Well ya know guys...

We all know that Force = M*** x Acceleration. FMA

:redcaptur