Awesome Kung Fu Kick used in MMA

[Gerry Seymour]

Successful Joint locks have 3 basics.
1. Joint locks are to flow with the persons movement. By flowing with the movement there is no resistance.
2. Know more than one joint lock. Usually when a person resits one joint lock, they put themselves in the position to have another joint lock applied. For example. The resistance to the wrist lock at 2:00 could have been turned into a different lock.
3. Do what was shown in the video, always keep the attempt to lock a joint hidden, by doing something that distracts the person from your true attention which then allows you to follow #1 of going with the flow of the person's movement.

I understand why in a security course that they ask the person to not resist and it's because of the lack of control of the people practicing the joint lock. The more that my partner resists, the more effort I'll put into doing the joint lock and that's not a good thing to do without control. If I think someone is going to resist then I may try to beat that person's resistance with speed or strength and as a result I may accidentally destroy the joint. It would be different if the instructor knows with certainty that the participants have control, but since he has no way of knowing it's just best to play it safe.

The other danger is that sometimes the resistance goes in the wrong direction. There have been times when I had to release my attempt to lock a joint because the student was twisting in a way in which he would have damaged his own joint by trying to escape.

That's my issue with some of the wrist lock work taught in security courses, JGW. Those guys are not going to get enough repetitions to get all of that down, so they should mostly avoid those locks where resistance leads too easily to destruction. The one shown in the video is a good one, because there's a relatively long continuum of application to that. For instance, the way it's used in the video isn't strictly speaking a lock, because there's no base against which to lock it. He's using it to force the uke's weight back (working beautifully in one of the "grey spaces" I love, combining two techniques found in NGA) for the throw. That same lock can be used for pain compliance and lead (like the video), and if applied further can strain the wrist (unlikely to cause long-term damage) and if applied hard and fast with a base behind it can be turned to destruction. Because there's that middle area where it hurts a lot and causes relatively minor injury (strain) that will reduce the limb's effectiveness, it's a good one for security training. I love his selection of it, and just wish he'd shown it used in restraint, as well, because there's a nice transition to putting the guy on his stomach and using the wrist lock (putting a base behind it) or transitioning to a shoulder lock.

 

[Hanzou]

Really? You can't see the sloppy punches and kicks and brawling in MMA fights?

I would very much like to see this sloppyness that you're talking about.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Funny, that's exactly what I said. What are you disagreeing with?



Again, that's what I said.



What does that even mean?



And then in this same post you say this;



Which makes them COMPLETELY different from the step by step method that Bjj teaches.

Again, what are you disagreeing with?



Feel free to show me some karateka doing some "actual" fighting. The only ones I've seen on a consistent basis are Kyokushin practitioners.



Nah.

I have no idea ....you keep going back and forth. Its best to not engage with you.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

That and you do not read peoples entire comments...which shows that reading your opinions, is a serious waste of time.

 

[Hanzou]

I have no idea ....you keep going back and forth. Its best to not engage with you.

I said that kata doesn't resemble actual fighting.

You said that kata doesn't resemble actual fighting.

Your mistake is believing that no martial art fights like it trains.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

C

I said that kata doesn't resemble actual fighting.

You said that kata doesn't resemble actual fighting.

Your mistake is believing that no martial art fights like it trains.

I am sorry, the number you are trying to reach, is nolonger in service.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I said that kata doesn't resemble actual fighting.

You said that kata doesn't resemble actual fighting.

Your mistake is believing that no martial art fights like it trains.

There might be a disconnect here. Forms (kata) aren't the only training in any art I'm aware of. It is true that in some the forms don't look quite like the fighting, but other parts of training are the link between the two. That's why styles that don't have forms are easier to see the fighting in the training. I'm not debating the value of forms in this post, mind you, just pointing out that you may be comparing one kind of drill in one style to a drill with a different purpose in another style. Given that things like shrimping drills have analogs in TMA's that have forms, but those analogs are not the forms, I'm not sure what we gain from comparing forms to other kinds of drills.

 

[Phobius]

I said that kata doesn't resemble actual fighting.

You said that kata doesn't resemble actual fighting.

Your mistake is believing that no martial art fights like it trains.

Comparing forms to other drills is same as comparing stretching to fighting.

Noone stretches like they fight. Well there might be some system that does and I might step on their toes saying this. But no serious art.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I would very much like to see this sloppyness that you're talking about.

 

[Hanzou]

Comparing forms to other drills is same as comparing stretching to fighting.

Noone stretches like they fight. Well there might be some system that does and I might step on their toes saying this. But no serious art.

I didn't make the comparison, Guthrie did.

 

[JowGaWolf]

 

[Hanzou]

Yeah, just what I suspected.

The only two fights in that video you could consider "sloppy" were the Kimbo vs Dada 5000 fight, and the Gabby Garcia fight. The first fight got sloppy because those two clowns gassed almost as soon as the fight began, and it was clown fight to begin with. The problem with Gabby Garcia is that her striking sucked due to her sport Bjj background.

You really can't compare that to the preponderance of sloppy kickboxing in the traditional arts.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yeah, just what I suspected.

The only two fights in that video you could consider "sloppy" were the Kimbo vs Dada 5000 fight, and the Gabby Garcia fight. The first fight got sloppy because those two clowns gassed almost as soon as the fight began, and it was clown fight to begin with. The problem with Gabby Garcia is that her striking sucked due to her sport Bjj background.

You really can't compare that to the preponderance of sloppy kickboxing in the traditional arts.

 

[JowGaWolf]

 

[Phobius]

I didn't make the comparison, Guthrie did.

Fair enough, but a question to you. Do you say that stretching needs to look like fighting? Just asking because if you say the only thing one should train is what resembles fighting there is no way to stretch effectively.

Forms are not intended to be application in terms of Kung Fu, it is a library of movements that we need to train as part of remembering. Sort of like a technique of remembrance. This is of course not needed for all arts but passing on a method of remembering is important to Kung Fu.

We however only use forms sort of like a starting of class maybe 5-10 minutes tops. It is not a large focus of class but it is still important. Just like stretching, warmup, conditioning and strength training. This is for your memory. Maybe it was a way to keep things secret, quiet or whatnot. A time before video cameras and YouTube. A time where you could not be sure the art itself was kept intact even if your top students somehow died. The knowledge of most forms were still maintained by all students.

 

[Hanzou]

Did you actually watch any of those videos? The point behind them is stupid things some fighters do in the ring fighters gassing out too quickly, fighters dancing around too much, or bad calls by the referee. Anderson Silva and Fedor were in those vids. Those guys are pretty far from lacking technique or fighting ability.

 

[Hanzou]

Fair enough, but a question to you. Do you say that stretching needs to look like fighting? Just asking because if you say the only thing one should train is what resembles fighting there is no way to stretch effectively.

Of course not. However, stretching has a pretty direct purpose which can aid overall fighting ability.

Forms are not intended to be application in terms of Kung Fu, it is a library of movements that we need to train as part of remembering. Sort of like a technique of remembrance. This is of course not needed for all arts but passing on a method of remembering is important to Kung Fu.

Why have a library of fighting movements that aren't meant to be applied in a fight?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Did you actually watch any of those videos? The point behind them is stupid things some fighters do in the ring fighters gassing out too quickly, fighters dancing around too much, or bad calls by the referee. Anderson Silva and Fedor were in those vids. Those guys are pretty far from lacking technique or fighting ability.

I'm not going to hold your hand and point out the sloppy fighting in those videos, if you can't tell the difference of what's sloppy and what's not in that video then you clearly have a disease which affects your ability to analyze.

 

[Steve]

I thought bunkai was all about application? Are you guys now saying kata is like stretching?

 

[drop bear]

I thought bunkai was all about application? Are you guys now saying kata is like stretching?

I have been saying it. Some people just dont understand kata.