Hanzou
Grandmaster
Utter nonsense. None of the stuff you mentioned above appears in that kata. Nor would any karateka pull such techniques from that kata.
Which simply shows their level of usefulness.
Awesome Kung Fu Kick used in MMA
- Thread starter JowGaWolf
- Start date
Utter nonsense. None of the stuff you mentioned above appears in that kata. Nor would any karateka pull such techniques from that kata.
Which simply shows their level of usefulness.
Again, I'm unfamiliar with Karate techniques, so I'll take your word for them being commonly disparate from application. One of the tenets I was taught was "keep application close to Classical". In keeping with this, as I adjusted application for Shojin-ryu, I also changed the Classical forms to keep them close to application. I specifically designed the forms to be reasonably close to application - the primary difference being the level of movement (our forms are intended for more sedate movement, to allow practice when first learning, injured, etc.).
Because it's a sport, and trying to hurt someone for sport is a d*** move.
He said Jones wasn't hitting the right place. That either means he wasn't aiming there or has bad aim. It looked like good force, and he kept his balance well, so I'm inclined to think he wasn't aiming directly for the knee. Hitting directly on the knee with a slight miss (without shoes) would seem to expose the foot to more danger, so he may have intentionally been working around the knee to protect his foot. Given the comments I've read about him, that seems more likely than him avoiding hurting the other guy.
Hanzou
Grandmaster
Jon Jones is a d****, so its not surprising that he'd do d**** moves. He's pretty notorious for purposely eye gouging people while fighting.
I'm still a fan though. Guy is an amazing martial artist.
I'm incapable of being a fan of someone who routinely cheats and tries to hurt people (beyond what the sport calls for) in any sport. I do admire his technique, though.
OP
OP
It's always about who is better with you. My thoughts about him doing the kick is that he doesn't do it with the possible maximum force. To me it looks like the kick lacks forward movement which means that he's cutting that power off on purpose or he doesn't know how to connect the forward movement in or to maximize the force of the kick.
OP
OP
Then I guess this is nonsense too. Because this is just what this guy did
Chatanyara Kushanku and application
Hanzou
Grandmaster
Yes. Check out their kumite at the 7:30 mark....
No pretty kata applications, just more sloppy kickboxing.
OP
OP
Most forms are like this. There is always a base for techniques and from that bases proper movement is taught and that movement will deteriorate when done in application when application is applied, but it will still be the most efficient move against that specific resistance. If the technique flies through without contest then it will be the most effective strike.
If I start with incorrect movement, then it will be even more so when resistance is applied, If my strike enters without resistance then the best case scenario will be an ineffective strike. Hanzou just doesn't understand because he doesn't want to understand and everything that people say has to be verified by MMA fights. just like the kick, when he stated the only reason the kick worked was because it was done with the MMA Method.
OP
OP
The majority of the video was showing how they develop their footwork and timing, then it showed them doing one-sided sparring where one person attacks and the other defends. The sparring session is geared towards sports. The only thing the video shows are students learning how to use their techniques.
D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
Your bias shows, and your lack of knowledge concerning Karate is understandable. You obviously are a cherry picker. If you would have read my entire post...you would have understood, that I stated that the applications, will look different than the forms.
You just do not understand that the movements in Kata, are not meant to teach the method of delivery. And its obvious that you have a lousy eye, when it comes to a person delivering the techniques.
Hell, you can see the sloppiness in every cage match in mma. Its right in front of your face. You are just mystified by the current kick of the month.
When I cocompared the teachings of kata with the step by step method that bjj teachs..it was an attempt to get you to understand that practice and delivery are not the same. But it is clear that you just want to be right.
If you had real experience you would know that the teaching and training of real karate, was massively altered in the earlier 80's for tournament. Massive mistake and some stepped away from those schools that did this.
This statement shows the very problem that ensued due to that change:
The movements found in Karate kata are barely used in the fighting form, which is why the argument of people not fighting like the forms comes up fairly consistently.
This statement here..always shows me whether or not someones Karate is legit or not.
You see kickboxing, simply because a majority of karateka, are trained for tournament and competition, not actual fighting.
Thats why I have stated in earlier threads, that it seems two different systems are being taught..Kata and sloppy kickboxing and it is obvious that you, are a victim of one of these types of school when you did karate.
Next time, read the persons entire post.
D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
Another statement that shows a lack of knowledge in karate...is when a person says that Karate has no grappling or throws.
Anyone can learn to punch, strike and wrestle. There is nothing special about that. Every young kid learns these things in playground scuffling and brawling. Thats why mma is popular.
Anyone can learn to punch, strike and wrestle. There is nothing special about that. Every young kid learns these things in playground scuffling and brawling. Thats why mma is popular.
Hanzou
Grandmaster
I wasn't talking about the majority of the video, I was talking about the end of the video where those students were applying their techniques in fighting form.
Nothing of that extensive kata practice from your earlier video were on display.
If in a confrontation, those students will fight exactly like they did at the end of my video. That's how they're trained, and that's how they spar.
Frankly if you want to learn kickboxing with takedowns you're better off learning Sanda.
Kickboxer101
Master Black Belt
This thread has seriously gone downhill it started off analysing 1 kick in what was actually discussion now it's just gone to a style vs style slagging match.
Honestly I think it's pretty ignorant of any high level martial artist to disrespect another style and call it useless. Me personally I don't like grappling I find it dull to watch and boring to practice but I still respect it and still know it has its uses as does kickboxing as does Kung fu as does karate as does taekwondo as does anything.
Honestly I think it's pretty ignorant of any high level martial artist to disrespect another style and call it useless. Me personally I don't like grappling I find it dull to watch and boring to practice but I still respect it and still know it has its uses as does kickboxing as does Kung fu as does karate as does taekwondo as does anything.
Hanzou
Grandmaster
WHo said any art was useless?
That lines up with my understanding of the way we use forms, they are the "perfect" application of the technique - perfect situation, perfect movement, etc. Application in sparring or fight will never quite match it, since you'll never get those exact optimal circumstances and will often have to make some compromises on the perfect movement to accommodate whatever appears to be next.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
They are trying to beat each other unconscious. There is an element of that.
And regarding John jones. Crashing in to a pregnant chick and then running away because he is on the pingas tops anything knee kick wise.
Jon Jones -- Drugs Found In Crash Car
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Yeah. If I had a choice between the John Jones kick that wins him UFC fights and yours which rearranged the bag in your room. I would probably go the John Jones kick.
Look I might be missing out on an awesome technique. But I guess I will just have to take that risk.
OP
OP
Student and martial artists in general will only use the techniques that they feel comfortable with. As the student gets better, they begin to add on more advanced techniques to their list of techniques to use in a fight. I wouldn't expect children to have a large comfort zone of karate techniques for use.
Similar threads
Latest Discussions
-
重心 Zhòngxīn center of gravity- Latest: Kung Fu Wang
-
-
-
-
