Awesome Kung Fu Kick used in MMA

[Hanzou]

So if a guy gets knocked out quick that means his whole style is useless does that mean Jose Aldo sucks because he's been training for years and got knocked out in 13 seconds what about Damian Maia got knocked out in 21 seconds his amazing jiu jitsu meant absolute 0 when he took a punch to the face.

Bey didn't get knocked out quick, the fight lasted for quite a few minutes. In those few minutes we saw a distinct lack of fighting ability for someone who spent 30 years training in his art of choice.

As for Jose Aldo and Damian Maia, they were fighting world class fighters, and they themselves are world class fighters who have ample counter-examples to support their fighting ability. Neither of the same can be said about Bey and Hung Gar.

Perhaps if Bey participated in some more fights, this little incident would be wiped away. However, we both know that's not going to happen.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It works for both as the experienced student has to rely 100% on footwork to evade attacks. For use footwork allows us to counter better. The drill also helps us to focus more on what attacks look like. I try to make students study what comes at them so they can get good enough to exploit attacks, defenses, footing. Etc.

I'd like to see that in action. It sounds like it might translate well for NGA, too.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Frankly, if you can't throw a good kick or punch in combat after 30 years of training, then you never learned how to kick or punch properly.

Nice forms though.

The weight controls, etc. needed for performing a kick under the pressure of an attack are different from performing it alone. I've seen people do very good kicks whose kicks would fall apart when used dynamically. I've also seen folks whose kicks were simply too slow for use in combat - they'd never practiced to that context, so had never developed the ability to use it there. "Properly" can vary by context: a proper kick to break open a door is a bit different from a proper kick to push someone back is different from a proper kick to do damage in combat.

 

[drop bear]

I'll try and steer this away from the whole style vs style thing that seems to be going on here. So for the kick I agree it should be banned as should the side kick to the knee or any knee kicks. Rogan once said oh yeah those kicks mess your knee up but so does a leg lock well yeah rogan but the difference is a leg lock you can tap before there's any real damage (unless your fighting rousimar palhares then your knees screwed either way lol) but it's a great techique to use on the street simple and fast

A round kick can mess your knee up.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

bolded part isn't true. They do look the same, if trained well. But it's important to distinguish between drills and technique. Jumping rope isn't a technique in boxing, but a jab is. And the jab in application, whether a street fight or a boxing ring, looks like a jab in training.

A scissor sweep is a basic technique in BJJ which looks the same in application as in training.

This idea of techniques looking different in application only comes up when the training stops short of application.

I am speaking from a karate perspective and the applications, in their general delivery, do differ from the movements within the forms.

I was simply stating that although the movements are the same, in combat, the motions can vary and deviate from the original directions. This doesn't mean that I think it turns into sloopy kickboxing. Nor do I think the proper structure is damaged while delivering a strike or techniques.

Do the art, till the art does you.

This is what a tell my current student, do the techniques many times, so that you move without thinking. Teach your body, to catch up with your thoughts.

Also, I do not see the difference between forms and the ground movements of bjj. Correct me if I am wrong but, bjj has a step by step process for learning the techniques from takedowns to ground techniques(a specific pattern albiet shorter)

Katas, forms or whatever you want to call them, follow this same process for stand up techniques and strikes. The delivery of the applications vary from the forms, because forms are used to teach the specific pattern of a technique, not the method of delivery. Thats what application is for.

The forms do not teach the 3 foundations of combat karate, Enter, Counter and Escape. This incidentally, is the key to the success of karate in combat, notice the first one, enter, karate works when you enter. The counter can be one tech or fifty, this of course is at the discretion of the individual. Still, the application is needed in order for the student to truly understand the technique, the entering process, counter and escape.

As I stated earlier, this is purely from a karate perspective.

If you are doing forms but you are not exploring the motions in a form as combative moves, then you are not learning karate forms the proper way.

Karate has an on gaurd stance for a reason.

Karate is not holding your strike out and then waiting for the defender to complete the techniques. When you deliver the strike, crowd the defender, make sure they can execute the techniques in realtime, resist.

Karate is meant to enter, move pass the strike, incapacitate and escape.

Apologies Steve, lol not necessarily directed at you specifically but, in karate there are different uses between katas and apps.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yes but when a leg lock starts to get painful you tap before it destroys your knee the kick you've got no choice if it lands right your knees done

Good point. There is no gradual application of impact. Similar to the effect of a kick breaking a board. The force that allows the kick to break the board is not gradually applied to the board.

 

[kuniggety]

I think you guys haven't trained leg locks. There is no "give" in the knee and the exact same point you're trying to make about the knee kicks applies to the locks that attack the knee whether a knee bar or a heel hook.

Knee bars are only allowed in advanced category in competitions and heel hooks in either immediate or advanced (depending on the rules) because of how easy it is to hurt the other person when you're both rolling around with adrenaline in you.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'd like to see that in action. It sounds like it might translate well for NGA, too.

I'll try to remember to record this the next time we do it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think you guys haven't trained leg locks. There is no "give" in the knee and the exact same point you're trying to make about the knee kicks applies to the locks that attack the knee whether a knee bar or a heel hook.

Knee bars are only allowed in advanced category in competitions and heel hooks in either immediate or advanced (depending on the rules) because of how easy it is to hurt the other person when you're both rolling around with adrenaline in you.

Legs locks don't happen instantly. Kicks and punches do.
The time it takes to get a leg lock vs the time it takes to kick a leg inward.

With the leg lock I know it's going bad for me and that there's a chance to escape. But with that specific kick. It just pops up with no warning. You can tell by the fighter who got the kick that he was totally unprepared for the kick. In Kung Fu this is why we have stances that are lower than what we see used in boxing in MMA. There is an acceptance that there is a slim chance that a fighter would be able to react quickly enough to that kick to save that knee, so knees are bent in a way that protect the knee. Your chances of avoiding that kick improve after the first kick, but only slightly because now your looking for it.

 

[kuniggety]

Legs locks don't happen instantly. Kicks and punches do.
The time it takes to get a leg lock vs the time it takes to kick a leg inward.

The set up for a leg lock is longer but the application of pressure is not. Once the lock is applied, the difference in pressure to apply pain and to break is very small. If two people are using full force on each other, there is not time to "just tap" unless you prematurely tap as soon as the lock is had/before pressure is applied.

I'm not arguing that one is more dangerous than the other; they're both dangerous. They're both sudden violent moves that cause the knee to move in a way it's not designed to.

 

[drop bear]

Legs locks don't happen instantly. Kicks and punches do.
The time it takes to get a leg lock vs the time it takes to kick a leg inward.

With the leg lock I know it's going bad for me and that there's a chance to escape. But with that specific kick. It just pops up with no warning. You can tell by the fighter who got the kick that he was totally unprepared for the kick. In Kung Fu this is why we have stances that are lower than what we see used in boxing in MMA. There is an acceptance that there is a slim chance that a fighter would be able to react quickly enough to that kick to save that knee, so knees are bent in a way that protect the knee. Your chances of avoiding that kick improve after the first kick, but only slightly because now your looking for it.

John jones spent 15 minutes knee kicking a dude and couldn't break the knee though

 

[JowGaWolf]

John jones spent 15 minutes knee kicking a dude and couldn't break the knee though

He wasn't targeting the knee. He was targeting the above the knee on the thigh and below the knee. Hitting there is not the same as striking directly on the knee. You won't understand this kick until you have a chance to experience it on the shin, which is the safest place to take the kick vs on the knee.

Once this kick has been used on you then you will understand the force of the kick. Just from your statement, I assume that you haven't had this technique done on you, nor have you correctly done this technique before.

 

[RTKDCMB]

John jones spent 15 minutes knee kicking a dude and couldn't break the knee though

Do you really think he was trying to actually break the knee though?

 

[Hanzou]

Also, I do not see the difference between forms and the ground movements of bjj. Correct me if I am wrong but, bjj has a step by step process for learning the techniques from takedowns to ground techniques(a specific pattern albiet shorter)

There's a world of difference. The movements found in Karate kata are barely used in the fighting form, which is why the argument of people not fighting like the forms comes up fairly consistently.

Example:

Beautiful kata, but I have yet to see any karateka fight like that. They more closely resemble kick boxers.

Bjj techniques:

Pretty much how you would do those techniques while fighting.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Do you really think he was trying to actually break the knee though?

With Jon jones yeah I do most people probably but that is a total douche. He pokes people's eyes constantly he hits at the back of the head constantly his only was a DQ for multipal illegal elbows then looked shocked it happened. The guy is a dirty fighter and I have no doubts he was trying to do it and did injure him rampage said his knee was never the same after the fight

 

[JowGaWolf]

The movements found in Karate kata are barely used in the fighting form, which is why the argument of people not fighting like the forms comes up fairly consistently.

Not true. Techniques from the form in that video that are commonly used (only the ones I recognize because I don't do karate)
1:17 knife hand in bow stance is slipping a punch and countering.

1:19 1-2 punch combination
1:23 front kick the one she used has been seen in UFC knocking people out.
1:26 cat stance is always used in fighting in some shape or form.

1:29 lead hand outward block.

1:37 elbow strike to ribs

Beautiful kata, but I have yet to see any karateka fight like that.

No one is going to fight like that kata. Kata wasn't designed to be used as how a fight should look like. As a matter of fact when they show the application of a technique, it doesn't look like kata, but they can point to the reference in the kata.

 

[JowGaWolf]

With Jon jones yeah I do most people probably but that is a total douche. He pokes people's eyes constantly he hits at the back of the head constantly his only was a DQ for multipal illegal elbows then looked shocked it happened. The guy is a dirty fighter and I have no doubts he was trying to do it and did injure him rampage said his knee was never the same after the fight

He has really bad aim then. If you want to break the knee then you'll have to put all of the force on the knee so the joint will fail.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Not true. Techniques from the form in that video that are commonly used (only the ones I recognize because I don't do karate)
1:17 knife hand in bow stance is slipping a punch and countering.

1:19 1-2 punch combination
1:23 front kick the one she used has been seen in UFC knocking people out.
1:26 cat stance is always used in fighting in some shape or form.

1:29 lead hand outward block.

1:37 elbow strike to ribs

No one is going to fight like that kata. Kata wasn't designed to be used as how a fight should look like. As a matter of fact when they show the application of a technique, it doesn't look like kata, but they can point to the reference in the kata.

Lets also not forget who the number 1 contender for the welterweight title is Stephen Thompson a Karate fighter who's beaten pretty much everyone from boxers, wrestlers, jiu jitsu guys and pure mma fighters.

 

[drop bear]

Do you really think he was trying to actually break the knee though?

If he breaks the knee he wins and goes home.

Why wouldn't he?

 

[drop bear]

He wasn't targeting the knee. He was targeting the above the knee on the thigh and below the knee. Hitting there is not the same as striking directly on the knee. You won't understand this kick until you have a chance to experience it on the shin, which is the safest place to take the kick vs on the knee.

Once this kick has been used on you then you will understand the force of the kick. Just from your statement, I assume that you haven't had this technique done on you, nor have you correctly done this technique before.

So you have a better oblique kick than john jones. who does it wrong.