Are you really training for self defense?

[Steve]

Steve,
No I cannot elaborate, my post speaks for itself; and you are left to comprehend the tenor of it, on your own.
God gave all us the ability to understand implication, it is known as inferring. So, please infer.

I'm unable to infer from your post what you really mean. Honestly, it's a very young post, and doesn't have the world experience a more savvy post might have. Expecting it to speak for itself is a lot to ask. If you could give your post a little help, I'm sure it would appreciate the assist.

When you say you "cannot" elaborate, do you mean you choose not to, or that you are unable to?

 

[BigMotor]

I'm unable to infer from your post what you really mean. Honestly, it's a very young post, and doesn't have the world experience a more savvy post might have. Expecting it to speak for itself is a lot to ask. If you could give your post a little help, I'm sure it would appreciate the assist.

When you say you "cannot" elaborate, do you mean you choose not to, or that you are unable to?

Sorry, I thought that you might be a smarmy know-it-all or something. Below, I have quoted a few lines from the OP and the first post in this thread.

A final thought for those who are training for self-defence –
1.How much does your martial arts training prepare you for an assault?
2.If you were faced with a potential threat tomorrow, similar to those mentioned above, would you change you training approach today?

Those are good questions, because if you MA cannot save your life from a violent man, then you need to reconsider things. That is how I conduct myself in my MA thought-life. Since I became old an withered: I can't practice TKD, Judo, Wrestling, MMA, or anything else.

I am a tater tot in ways, so I adjusted to using a walking staff, and if needed, a knife. I carry on a 10 speed bicycle, a staff, and that is my transport for now.
So, I must be proficient in ways with that staff, which is more like an aluminum baton.

I just went to a site, and found an old police manual PDF for batons, and I will look at it. It will give me some ideas, I know that it will. If I cannot stop a deadly assault with that walking stick, then it is useless. I am deluding myself, if I think that just having it, and waving it, will mean anything.

My point is, test your theory, to see if it works. A young man is well served by learning MMA, Ju Jitsu, etcetera; but not me, I am to stiff and I am tired.
An attacker is a dangerous thing, so always treat them as dangerous; so when you train, find a school that will teach you how to deck them.

Here is a for instance, without going to school for wrestling; I can tell you that it can be used to break a neck, or a someone's head. You can just grab them around the neck, and use a piledriver on them.

I saw the piledriver on pro wrestling, and they do it for entertainment; but think about it, you could kill somebody with it. It is how you think about things, and if you think that you can be a tough fighter, then you can be. But, it takes years of training, it is not all talk, and theory; and that is the tough part. Pick the school and train hard and smart.

 

[geezer]

...I saw the piledriver on pro wrestling, and they do it for entertainment; but think about it, you could kill somebody with it. It is how you think about things...

...umm ...ummmm, ...I'm speechless. You lost me dude.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Steve,
No I cannot elaborate, my post speaks for itself; and you are left to comprehend the tenor of it, on your own.
God gave all us the ability to understand implication, it is known as inferring. So, please infer.

Inference often adds or changes meaning. Why not share what you actually meant?

 

[pdg]

Here is a for instance, without going to school for wrestling; I can tell you that it can be used to break a neck, or a someone's head. You can just grab them around the neck, and use a piledriver on them.

So, without going to school for wrestling you're confident that you can "just" grab them around the neck and subsequently manipulate them into a position suitable for delivering a pile driver?

And the fact they might be stabbing you in the face with an ice pick at the time?

 

[drop bear]

...umm ...ummmm, ...I'm speechless. You lost me dude.

There is plenty of pro wrestling stuff that would wreck people on the street if done with bad intentions.

 

[pdg]

There is plenty of pro wrestling stuff that would wreck people on the street if done with bad intentions.

Sure, I never said wrestling stuff wouldn't ever work.

But, using the piledriver example from earlier - can someone who has watched a bit of wrestling on TV really be believed if they say they'd simply grab someone around the neck and piledrive them if they got attacked?

 

[drop bear]

Sure, I never said wrestling stuff wouldn't ever work.

But, using the piledriver example from earlier - can someone who has watched a bit of wrestling on TV really be believed if they say they'd simply grab someone around the neck and piledrive them if they got attacked?

Pretty sure that is how most fights work.

Guys get in to a fight and wind up either throwing imaginary tennis balls or doing that move they saw on TV.

I mean you want to know why I discount anecdotal evidence. This is why.

 

[pdg]

I mean you want to know why I discount anecdotal evidence. This is why.

I never asked why...

In all honesty, some bloke saying he heard about someone doing something that was possibly a move from a certain system means nothing to me either.

It's the whole "I know it's true, Dave down the pub told me"...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I never asked why...

In all honesty, some bloke saying he heard about someone doing something that was possibly a move from a certain system means nothing to me either.

It's the whole "I know it's true, Dave down the pub told me"...

He includes in his dismissal all experience related by cops, bouncers, etc., unless it’s also on video. And not just the one-offs, but the reports of what they find works reliably.

 

[pdg]

He includes in his dismissal all experience related by cops, bouncers, etc., unless it’s also on video. And not just the one-offs, but the reports of what they find works reliably.

I have to say that it depends on the source for me.

Also, how many generations of transmission has it been through...

And then there's simple judgement.

Context. Context is important too.

 

[geezer]

There is plenty of pro wrestling stuff that would wreck people on the street if done with bad intentions.

Yeah, sure I get that. A lot of pro wrestlers were actual wrestlers, and good ones, others were brawlers or bouncers, and sure, grabbing somebody around the waist, picking them up and slamming them hard on the ground is a real fight-ender....

...but using fantasy pro wrestling as a source for fighting techniques? Heck, why not watch Star Trek. Ever see Kirk fight the Gorn?

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, sure I get that. A lot of pro wrestlers were actual wrestlers, and good ones, others were brawlers or bouncers, and sure, grabbing somebody around the waist, picking them up and slamming them hard on the ground is a real fight-ender....

...but using fantasy pro wrestling as a source for fighting techniques? Heck, why not watch Star Trek. Ever see Kirk fight the Gorn?

I guarantee there have been some clasp hands double punches thrown in street fights.

I mean it is absolutely on my bucket list.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I have to say that it depends on the source for me.

Also, how many generations of transmission has it been through...

And then there's simple judgement.

Context. Context is important too.

Practical skepticism is a useful tool.

 

[Punchy]

...but using fantasy pro wrestling as a source for fighting techniques? Heck, why not watch Star Trek. Ever see Kirk fight the Gorn?

Looks like a variation of the Rhino guard

 

[pdg]

Practical skepticism is a useful tool.

Indeed.

There are grey areas though - things that shouldn't work but do, and things that should work but don't.

I'm not a great believer in the "just punch them in the face" plan, but I know someone for whom it worked flawlessly. A good friend was out one night and someone threatened him with a weapon of opportunity (a temporary road sign of all things). As the assailant lifted it above his head to swing, my friend punched him and ran off. I count that as a win.

Also, I've stated before that I've not had need to "defend myself" - but that's not strictly true depending on how you interpret it...

I've verbally de-escalated a few times, and I've also gone for the "instant escalation shock and awe" tactic too - a kid (maybe 17-18) pulled a fairly small knife on me and demanded money.

I don't think he expected to be grabbed by the throat, shoved against a wall and threatened with a motorcycle helmet while I very loudly and with much venom explained what I was going to do to him.

I'd never recommend that course of action, because y'know, might get stabbed - but say and do are different things sometimes (plus his knife wouldn't have got that far through my armoured leathers anyway, even if he did choose to stab instead of cry).


I also wouldn't expect either of those incidents to be believed to the point of using them as an example either...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Indeed.

There are grey areas though - things that shouldn't work but do, and things that should work but don't.

I'm not a great believer in the "just punch them in the face" plan, but I know someone for whom it worked flawlessly. A good friend was out one night and someone threatened him with a weapon of opportunity (a temporary road sign of all things). As the assailant lifted it above his head to swing, my friend punched him and ran off. I count that as a win.

Also, I've stated before that I've not had need to "defend myself" - but that's not strictly true depending on how you interpret it...

I've verbally de-escalated a few times, and I've also gone for the "instant escalation shock and awe" tactic too - a kid (maybe 17-18) pulled a fairly small knife on me and demanded money.

I don't think he expected to be grabbed by the throat, shoved against a wall and threatened with a motorcycle helmet while I very loudly and with much venom explained what I was going to do to him.

I'd never recommend that course of action, because y'know, might get stabbed - but say and do are different things sometimes (plus his knife wouldn't have got that far through my armoured leathers anyway, even if he did choose to stab instead of cry).


I also wouldn't expect either of those incidents to be believed to the point of using them as an example either...

Agreed. The point of talking to folks about what they’ve used - especially what they’ve used more than once - is to check assumptions. If I think a hip throw is great because Inused it once, but I can’t find anyone reliable (and trained in that technique) who has done so, then I need to question why not, and whether my view is skewed. And the converse is true for, say, standing arm bars. If I don’t like them and don’t trust them, but find folks who use them reliably on the job, then the problem is probably my arm bar, rather than the arm bar.

 

[pdg]

Agreed. The point of talking to folks about what they’ve used - especially what they’ve used more than once - is to check assumptions. If I think a hip throw is great because Inused it once, but I can’t find anyone reliable (and trained in that technique) who has done so, then I need to question why not, and whether my view is skewed. And the converse is true for, say, standing arm bars. If I don’t like them and don’t trust them, but find folks who use them reliably on the job, then the problem is probably my arm bar, rather than the arm bar.

That's the thing, I don't believe in "the one technique", nor do I believe there are many "bad" techniques (speaking fundamentally - any technique can be performed badly).

Other people can do things I can't - or can't without significant practice, which I may or may not feel is worthwhile for me. It may mean trying to change my defaults, which can be very difficult and counterproductive.

The opposite is also true.

And it's situational imo. I also don't believe that any technique can always be used against any opponent - it has to fit both parties to work.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't believe in "the one technique", ...

You need 2 techniques. One attack the head. One attack the leg. Head lock and single leg can be a nice combination.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That's the thing, I don't believe in "the one technique", nor do I believe there are many "bad" techniques (speaking fundamentally - any technique can be performed badly).

Other people can do things I can't - or can't without significant practice, which I may or may not feel is worthwhile for me. It may mean trying to change my defaults, which can be very difficult and counterproductive.

The opposite is also true.

And it's situational imo. I also don't believe that any technique can always be used against any opponent - it has to fit both parties to work.

All agreed. My point is that it’s just information to use in questioning assumptions. I’ve seen folks pull off those cool muscles from Capoeira and Kyokushin in professional fights, but won’t be adding either to my arsenal. But from those few instances, I now have a different view of such kicks. Same for all head kicks, which I tended to dismiss as not worth the effort until I saw them used in MMA, and those are something I’m capable of, already.

I use 1-1 input from cops and prison guards the same way, though with more skepticism, since I’m depending upon their recall and ability to avoid inflating the story.