The problem with "traditional" martial arts.

[Buka]

So how many times have you defeated multiple attackers then ?

Several times, bro. But the first time I "experienced" multiples was when I was seventeen, shortly before I began any Martial training. And, oh, what a beating I got. Even got peed on by one of them when it was over. Interesting thing about that, at least to me and mine, it was behind a pool hall - that would later become my dojo some fifteen years later. And even more interesting, at least to me - one of the guys who beat on me, walked in to sign up his son some twenty years later.

Since then I've been fortunate enough to experience some great training, great jobs, and some historical events that involved, for lack of a better term, fricken riots where people were trying to kill each other.

And, you, Jobo, what's your experience in such things?

 

[jobo]

Several times, bro. But the first time I "experienced" multiples was when I was seventeen, shortly before I began any Martial training. And, oh, what a beating I got. Even got peed on by one of them when it was over. Interesting thing about that, at least to me and mine, it was behind a pool hall - that would later become my dojo some fifteen years later. And even more interesting, at least to me - one of the guys who beat on me, walked in to sign up his son some twenty years later.

Since then I've been fortunate enough to experience some great training, great jobs, and some historical events that involved, for lack of a better term, fricken riots where people were trying to kill each other.

And, you, Jobo, what's your experience in such things?

Yes I've been in a few riots myself, got a belting telly back in 81, it nearly killed me getting it home, they were very heavy back then

 

[Buka]

Yes I've been in a few riots myself, got a belting telly back in 81, it nearly killed me getting it home, they were very heavy back then

I don't know what a "belting telly" is but I'm guessing it sucks. I feel your pain, bro.

 

[jobo]

I don't know what a "belting telly" is but I'm guessing it sucks. I feel your pain, bro.

A good quality television set, with a flatter squareR screen, when square screens were the thing

 

[CB Jones]

A good quality television set, with a flatter squareR screen, when square screens were the thing

Wait....are you saying you stole a TV during a riot?

 

[jobo]

Wait....are you saying you stole a TV during a riot?

Appropriated, it was just saT there on the road, so I took it home for safety, I bet the guy was furious when he came back with a shopping trolley, it was murder getting it home on a motorbike

 

[drop bear]

Ironically the worst riots for me were underage discos.

They would just spit 1200 kids out on the streets. And they would just go for it.

We were a bit gang heavy at the time.

 

[JR 137]

I’ve been in two riots. The first was after a soccer game in Lima, Peru. Being 15 years old and out of the country for the first time, it was an interesting experience. That one was cover up and run. The can of tear gas that landed a few feet in front of me dispersed the crowd around us pretty quickly.

The second one was in front of my fraternity house. It was alumni weekend at our college, and somehow two guys fighting in front of our house, which was directly across the street from the bar, turned into a 300+ person melee. Two fraternities, 3 sports teams, and a ton of alumni of all of those. It was keep your head on a swivel and hit anything that comes at you. Only one guy genuinely involved walked away completely unscathed - my fraternity brother Elmar. Elmar grew up on the streets of Bangkok and trained and fought Muay Thai from the day he could walk until he “escaped and came here for college” (his words). I’ve never seen that many people get dismantled with such ease as I saw Elmar do that night. After college, Elmar got citizenship, enlisted in the Marine Corps, and last I heard he was a drill instructor. No surprise at all. I wish we were in college at the same time. Being a Kyokushin guy at the time, it would’ve been interesting working out together. At least interesting for me, as I’d probably just get smacked around.

 

[Hudson69]

Would he have been able to handle both or all 3 on his feet? If not, would he have criticized his standup skills/style and say he should’ve taken them to the ground?

Just trying to keep it balanced here. This isn’t a grappling fanboy post. I wrestled and coached wrestling for quite some time. I’ve been in karate for quite some time as well. Knowing what I know, I’d do everything to stay on my feet. Once I’m on the ground, I’m locked into that position without much hope of a quick escape regardless of how in control I am of the situation. On my feet, I can at least try to scramble a bit if I’m lucky.

But let’s be serious... either way, on the ground or on my feet, 3 guys will eventually have their way with me. It’s just a matter of time. Unless of course they’re 10 year olds, then I like my chances a bit better

I think this is one of the points I was thinking of. I would be less concerned about beating someone (or even two if possible) as opposed to the option of simply disengaging as the better part of valor. Its much harder to leave a situation if you're in a ground fighting clinch.

I have no disrespect for grapplers wherever they come from.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think this is one of the points I was thinking of. I would be less concerned about beating someone (or even two if possible) as opposed to the option of simply disengaging as the better part of valor. Its much harder to leave a situation if you're in a ground fighting clinch.

I have no disrespect for grapplers wherever they come from.

With multiple people pursuing, getting out once you engage is pretty tough, no matter how you've chosen to engage. I might outrun one person by choosing the right direction. With more than one, there are fewer directions where my exit line is shorter and less cluttered than theirs.

 

[Anarax]

Several times, bro. But the first time I "experienced" multiples was when I was seventeen, shortly before I began any Martial training. And, oh, what a beating I got. Even got peed on by one of them when it was over. Interesting thing about that, at least to me and mine, it was behind a pool hall - that would later become my dojo some fifteen years later. And even more interesting, at least to me - one of the guys who beat on me, walked in to sign up his son some twenty years later.

Since then I've been fortunate enough to experience some great training, great jobs, and some historical events that involved, for lack of a better term, fricken riots where people were trying to kill each other.

And, you, Jobo, what's your experience in such things?

Wow, thank you for sharing such a personal and meaningful story. I'm sorry for your horrific experience, but it seems it might have influenced you taking up training.

 

[Anarax]

If you believe that you can't defeat multiple opponents - that will be a self fulfilling prophecy. I wish you all the luck in the world. I taught "Controlling and Defeating Multiple Opponents" for years in Federal Law Enforcement to officers, response teams and undercover officers.

Well, for me to take your opinion seriously you need to have had defeated at least 100 men, all armed with machetes, two machetes per man. If you haven't, then how can you really know for sure? Don't bring your logic into this.

 

[Buka]

Well, for me to take your opinion seriously you need to have had defeated at least 100 men, all armed with machetes, two machetes per man. If you haven't, then how can you really know for sure? Don't bring your logic into this.

I really don't like machetes, they scare me. When I train with them they tend to make me very nervous. My edged weapons instructor loves the fricken things. He trains people world wild who actually use them as part of their daily life. Me, I have no experience with them other than the occasional class, nor do I want any experience with the damn things. Thank you, but no.

As for logic....bro, come to Maui. It's a really nice place. I have a dojo at my disposal. It's a cool setting, no pressure no hassle. I'll show you anything you want to know. Promise. At least think about it.

Same goes for anybody else. I know, I know, coming to Maui is such a hassle.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I really don't like machetes, they scare me. When I train with them they tend to make me very nervous. My edged weapons instructor loves the fricken things. He trains people world wild who actually use them as part of their daily life. Me, I have no experience with them other than the occasional class, nor do I want any experience with the damn things. Thank you, but no.

As for logic....bro, come to Maui. It's a really nice place. I have a dojo at my disposal. It's a cool setting, no pressure no hassle. I'll show you anything you want to know. Promise. At least think about it.

Same goes for anybody else. I know, I know, coming to Maui is such a hassle.

The Hobbit and I were discussing that last night (as I was making plans with a much nearer MT-er). Maui is definitely on the short list for next year, brother.

 

[wckf92]

The Hobbit and I were discussing that last night (as I was making plans with a much nearer MT-er). Maui is definitely on the short list for next year, brother.

you were discussing machetes with a Hobbit(?)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

you were discussing machetes with a Hobbit(?)

Actually, that happened recently, too! I discuss many things with the Hobbit. It's a very silly place, here.

 

[Anarax]

As for logic....bro, come to Maui. It's a really nice place. I have a dojo at my disposal. It's a cool setting, no pressure no hassle. I'll show you anything you want to know. Promise. At least think about it.

Sounds very nice

Same goes for anybody else. I know, I know, coming to Maui is such a hassle.

I don't think coming is the challenging, but leaving will be.

 

[Buka]

Somebody just sent me this. There's really good control....and then there's this. Just wow.

 

[Flying Crane]

Somebody just sent me this. There's really good control....and then there's this. Just wow.

Impressive athleticism and showmanship.

The problem is, that is not traditional Chinese martial arts. That is Modern Wushu, developed in the 1950s by the Chinese government as a demonstration and performance art and a competition sport. It is more akin to a gymnastics floor routine with a martial flavor. The Chinese government did more than anyone else to contribute to the demise of Traditional Chinese martial arts, when they developed and pushed this method onto the Chinese population while actively persecuting those who practiced the traditional methods during the cultural revolution. Even now the government supports Modern Wushu while discouraging the traditional methods.

They are impressive athletes, but I don’t like it. It feels like a mockery to me.

 

[Buka]

I know nothing of Wushu, traditional nor modernized. I just liked watching that, though.