Are competitive Sport Martial Artists superior?

[Wing Woo Gar]

If all one is interested in is getting sustenance, they don't need to go beyond peanut butter & jelly and tuna fish sandwiches. It's effective and quick serves its purpose. So why spend time learning to cook? But one will never become a gourmet chef and appreciate complex flavors if expediency is the only concern.

It's possible now, it seems, to be happy communicating by text with LOL, WTF, OMG, and other shorthand (that I know nothing about). Quick and effective, so what is the incentive to actually learn to spell, use compound sentences and be able to write prose or poetry?

By short circuiting the "plodding path," the job may get done, but the art and its intricacies are lost. The style, which gave birth to the quick and effective techniques, suffers. Perhaps there should be a distinction between a fighting method and a martial "art." A method can be learned quickly, to learn an art may take decades. A method does not contain the full art. But the art will contain the method. However, nothing precludes one from following both paths simultaneously, if they wish.

It all depends on what you want to get out of the activity. I'm a creative cook and like to add subtle flavors of several ethnic cuisines. Time consuming and a lot to clean up, but I really enjoy the meal. But I can still make a peanut butter & jelly sandwich with the best of them.

Did I come close, GPS?

Well said.

 

[Hanzou]

In the video, the stick is very long. Not only it's not practical to carry around, it's too clumsy to swing around in tight space. You need open space to use that long a stick.

But for short stick, why not, we call it walk cane. I am carrying a cane everywhere I go. I practice using a walking cane for self defense. I would take this over bare hand striking or even grappling.

Yes, I can see how a cane or a short staff could work. I would say that there will be cases where your cane isn't available.

 

[drop bear]

You can master a stick, carry a stick, ward off attackers with a stick, disarm people with a stick.

That's before we get to dancing with it.

But the same kind of rules apply. Someone who fought with a stick would be better than someone who has just drilled.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I don't think age is all that relevant. Years of experience is, but doesn't really get to to the heart of what you're wondering. I'll just say that everyone significantly involved in this (drop bear, Hanzou, Steve) has a significant level of experience, though their experiences are quite different.

Exactly, the differences are what I’m interested in. I’m 50 years old I trained in jjj from age 9-13. I learned to box with my uncle who was a Navy boxer. I grew up in a fairly dangerous place where I saw (experienced) a lot of violence on the street. I worked as a bouncer on weekends. I Work in the medical field. I started seriously training in CMA (WingWooGar)when I was 24, trained continuously and consistently since then. I have taught for 7 years now. I still consider myself a student. I am also training bjj recently. Now you know something about where I’m coming from. ( oh and I like fireplaces and long walks on the beach too.)

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

But the same kind of rules apply. Someone who fought with a stick would be better than someone who has just drilled.

Wait, how many people have fought with a stick with any measure of skill that didn’t drill with it first?

 

[Alan0354]

Yes, I can see how a cane or a short staff could work. I would say that there will be cases where your cane isn't available.

I carry everywhere I go now.

 

[drop bear]

Wait, how many people have fought with a stick with any measure of skill that didn’t drill with it first?

Ten? Mabye.

That isn't the point though. There will be a lot more people who have drilled with a stick but never fought with one.

And I wouldn't really consider them trained in fighting with a stick.

So you know like this. They might think they can handle themselves. But they actually can't.

 

[Oily Dragon]

But the same kind of rules apply. Someone who fought with a stick would be better than someone who has just drilled.

Someone who just drilled would be better off than someone who never fought or drilled.

But maybe not.

You know how you spot a fighting stick school, right? Missing teeth.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Do you have an example of someone defending themselves with a kung-fu staff style in modern times?

Yes, I did it right here in this thread, at least twice.

My cane is always within hand's reach. I'd draw you a picture if I was any good.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

They might think they can handle themselves. But they actually can't.

I believe if you train MA, you should enter the Golden Gloves boxing at least once in your life time. The issue is you can only do that when you are still young.

When you experience that your opponent tries to knock you down, you then understand that to knock your opponent down is better than to be knocked down. You will then understand how important the "finish moves" are.

 

[drop bear]

I believe if you train MA, you should enter the Golden Gloves boxing at least once in your life time. The issue is you can only do that when you are still young.

When you experience that your opponent tries to knock you down, you then understand that to knock your opponent down is better than to be knocked down. You will then understand how important the "finish moves" are.

Golden gloves have a masters division.

Otherwise there are other masters amateur competitions out there. Which is all the golden gloves basically are.

We have a few of our guys compete. And a few win golden gloves.

 

[drop bear]

Someone who just drilled would be better off than someone who never fought or drilled.

But maybe not.

You know how you spot a fighting stick school, right? Missing teeth.

It depends. I mean again we don't really know. It is just assumed that drilling with a stick makes you better at it.

I have trained stick and gone at it with friends with nerf bats. And honestly I really wasn't much better off.

Coming at you fast with intent is nothing like heaven six.

Just like the judo video live stick fighting is a different animal to a drill.

 

[Alan0354]

Ten? Mabye.

That isn't the point though. There will be a lot more people who have drilled with a stick but never fought with one.

And I wouldn't really consider them trained in fighting with a stick.

So you know like this. They might think they can handle themselves. But they actually can't.

I have been practicing hard on stick fight with a cane by myself. Are you saying it's useless for self defense?

I can understand it would be more effective if I actually join a school and spar with people, but I cannot see that it's useless practicing by myself. I know I can swing a lot faster, move a lot better with the stick now than before I start practicing for sure.

 

[drop bear]

I have been practicing hard on stick fight with a cane by myself. Are you saying it's useless for self defense?

I can understand it would be more effective if I actually join a school and spar with people, but I cannot see that it's useless practicing by myself. I know I can swing a lot faster, move a lot better with the stick now than before I start practicing for sure.

It depends how you practice I guess. Bear in mind practice can mean literally anything.

I am not saying it doesn't make you better. I am saying it might not. And you need to find out. Because you could be practicing the wrong thing. And making yourself worse.

 

[Alan0354]

It depends how you practice I guess. Bear in mind practice can mean literally anything.

I am not saying it doesn't make you better. I am saying it might not. And you need to find out. Because you could be practicing the wrong thing. And making yourself worse.

What is the right thing and what is the wrong thing?

 

[Alan0354]

It depends. I mean again we don't really know. It is just assumed that drilling with a stick makes you better at it.

I have trained stick and gone at it with friends with nerf bats. And honestly I really wasn't much better off.

Coming at you fast with intent is nothing like heaven six.

Just like the judo video live stick fighting is a different animal to a drill.

About the two video, I did not even finish the second video, it's way too fancy and I don't think it's useful in real world even if I have a partner to practice with. We had some of the drills like this in my Tae Kwon Do before, I find it absolutely useless. Maybe it's just me, those drills just make me laugh, just like how I feel in TKD. Total waste of time. In real life, you do NOT have time to do those fancy moves AND nothing is that perfect the attack comes in like in the drill.

The first video is more realistic, BUT all I really see is people swing at each other. Maybe I miss it, I don't see a lot of defense or blocking. More like who reach the other person faster and land the strike first. Also footwork to move away from the attack(if they can). Then when close contact, the punch and kick comes into play.

That tells me practicing footwork to move in and out fast is important, strike hard and fast also important. All the fancy drills are out the window.....just like how I feel in the TKD training those days.

Of cause it's always good to actually have full contact or at least half power sparring. But then the question is do I want to do this at my age. I think this, can be practice alone by myself, not as effective, but learning how to step in and out faster, coordinate with the swing to attack the opponent and step back afterward. Those can be practice alone.

I don't have stick fight experience. But I am using my experience with TKD training, practice what is important only.

Also, I don't think even the first video is very useful in real life self defense. Real life is NOT like in competition that you have a big open space. You might be in a restaurant with table and chairs and people around, you cannot do wild swing, you end up hitting object along the swing before you hit the person and you might lose the stick all together. I practice CASTING to make the swing a lot more compact. I practice in confined area to get use to avoiding hitting things unintentionally. I use two hands with a 20 oz cane to make every hit I land counts. Hopefully if I land one strike, the guy is not going to recover like in the first video.

 

[Alan0354]

Too bad the editing time is over.

This is the one that I watched quite a few times. I think these two are quite good. They don't blind swing like a lot of the other videos.

I really like their footwork. Also, I think their sticks are thicker and heavier than some of the videos I saw, those all like 6oz skinny stick and they can afford to wack each other non stop and nobody drops. I remember I saw a video the two guys wacking each other from beginning till end, no defense, just keep wacking. I did not see any technique.

 

[Hanzou]

Too bad the editing time is over.

This is the one that I watched quite a few times. I think these two are quite good. They don't blind swing like a lot of the other videos.

I really like their footwork. Also, I think their sticks are thicker and heavier than some of the videos I saw, those all like 6oz skinny stick and they can afford to wack each other non stop and nobody drops. I remember I saw a video the two guys wacking each other from beginning till end, no defense, just keep wacking. I did not see any technique.

My issue with this is that if you need a cane to move around, your footwork won’t be like that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Wait, how many people have fought with a stick with any measure of skill that didn’t drill with it first?

He’s not arguing drills aren’t useful. He’s arguing that without some level of application, they are less useful.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

But the same kind of rules apply. Someone who fought with a stick would be better than someone who has just drilled.

Ten? Mabye.

That isn't the point though. There will be a lot more people who have drilled with a stick but never fought with one.

And I wouldn't really consider them trained in fighting with a stick.

So you know like this. They might think they can handle themselves. But they actually can't.

That video is garbage. Neither of those two seem to know what to do with that stick. 13 th degree black belt? They move like insects. My granny could scrap better than that.