Another Get your Kenpo Blackbelt at home.

[Nightingale]

Nobody's talking about anyone behind their back. This is a public forum, and anyone can drop by and read what's been posted.

 

[jrackley]

I researched his website thoroughly, painstakingly weeding my way through poorly structured paragraphs, mispelled words, and partially represented ideas, hoping that I wasn't really seeing what I was seeing, and that I would find proof of it somewhere in the fine print. The only thing I can surmise by reading your posts is that you attended the same grammar school as GRANDMASTER Roman. The fact that you are impressed by him means as little as the opinions of people who have not met him. You say you have met a lot of martial artists. Who? When? What was their history? They must not have been that impressive if you think it's a good idea to ally yourself with someone who sells black belts over the internet, supposedly representing a system as complex as Kenpo, or as nebulous as Red Feather (whatever that is). To an ant, even a fine mist is a torrential rainstorm. Look around; I've used this phrase in other threads to question the evaluative capacity of the speaker/writer (you, in this case).

MJS is a nice guy who makes responsible posts within the boundaries of courtesy and reason. I do not. I feel strongly about what a black belt is/should be (see my posting on the 'Master flunks everybody' thread), and Mr. Roman's offerings disgust me. He claims, within words of each other, to send you a Parker Kenpo black belt, on his honor as a Native American, to keep you out of lousy schools. I'm absolutely flabbergasted that more people don't catch the multiple layers of ridiculous ideas posited in this presentation.

Either a Parker belt is completely worthless compared to schools where you actually attend a class after cutting a check (even if they only teach karate-robics), or the whole thing hinges on his honor as a Native American (which means he either isn't one, or there is no such entity as Native American honor)...it's such a twisted foolery of absurd representations, that peeling it apart is like looking for the blunt end of a circle.

A fool and his money are soon parted. If you would like to continue training with a guy who is so cognitively scattered that he can't even make an internally consistent offering while shystering people out of their cash, then God Bless You...somebody has to be the sheep, or the world wouldn't need shepards. But if you choose to advocate for his reprehensible behavior (try a dictionary...you may have seen one in school, once), you should know there are people here who feel passionately about preserving the integrity of the arts; at least the ones with which they have a connection. There are a bunch of people here with better minds and cleaner histories than mine; with cutting insights & first-hand information; sources who have trained hard for their learnings, and do not suffer fools well. Particularly those selling black belts over the internet.

I have made a lot of mistakes in my lifetime; trained with a lot of fools thinking it was a good idea at the time. I have also had the pure luck to train with some true gems, and I can provide you the names of the fools and the gems in an PM if you like. My point is, after driving several lemons and several awesome street machines, you get a feel for a lemon when you see it (gee, which should I pick for the free car...the Gremlin, or the Porsche?). GRANDMASTER Roman with his black belts through the mail? I most strongly vote "lemon".

Sincerely,

Dr. Dave

Hello Superdave,
To me , you seem like you are a true loser with many opinions.You are very disrespectful.You are a coward by talking bad behind peoples back.You can spell, WOW!You must have very low confidence, thats why you put down others to try and lift yourself up.I may not have perfect grammer but i do understand brotherhood and courage.Obviously you have learned nothing about integrity and respect from your kenpo teacher or do you study kenpo at your fancy college or country club.No need to respond, i do not want to be associated with stuck up cowards.
jrackley

 

[TheEdge883]

Hello Superdave,
To me , you seem like you are a true loser with many opinions.You are very disrespectful.You are a coward by talking bad behind peoples back.You can spell, WOW!You must have very low confidence, thats why you put down others to try and lift yourself up.I may not have perfect grammer but i do understand brotherhood and courage.Obviously you have learned nothing about integrity and respect from your kenpo teacher or do you study kenpo at your fancy college or country club.No need to respond, i do not want to be associated with stuck up cowards.
jrackley

Please keep the personal attacks at a minimum. Posts like that do not speak highly of Mr. Roman's students.

I have at no point saw any personal or disrespectful attacks in what Kembudo-Kai Kempoka has posted. At no point has he spoken behind Mr. Roman's back, as stated in an earlier post, nothing that is posted here is behind anyone's back. This is a public forum, a free forum, that is here to post opinions, experiences, and thoughts. If you prefer not to read what is here, please do not come back.

However, if you have something you want to add to the board, please add it in a respectful way that shows your own personal experience.

 

[jrackley]

When is the kind of stuff gonna stop? This guy is claiming that you can obtain your Blackbelt in American Kenpo is 365 days or less, following his program?

More watering down Kenpo for a few bucks.



http://www.adrianroman.com

To everyone on this subject, i just wanted to say i am sorry if i have gotten upset.The art of Kenpo means a lot to me and I have much respect for Mr Roman.To see men putting him down, without knowing him, bothers me.I will work on staying calm and try to be more understanding.
Thank you
jrackley

 

[Nightingale]

Please, feel free to invite Mr. Roman here to explain about his program.

 

[MJS]

He offers private lessons!!!!! Please do research before quoting.

Please realize what the topic of the thread is, and that being vidoe instruction. Who said anything about privates???

Mike

 

[MJS]

To everyone on this subject, i just wanted to say i am sorry if i have gotten upset.The art of Kenpo means a lot to me and I have much respect for Mr Roman.To see men putting him down, without knowing him, bothers me.I will work on staying calm and try to be more understanding.
Thank you
jrackley

Let me explain something to you. First off, there are MANY people here, including myself that have trained in Kenpo for a long time, so the art is important to us as well! Second, this is a public forum. Therefore, you are going to find MANY people with MANY different outlooks on arts, people, training methods, etc. We are NOT robots, meaning that we all have different thoughts and ideas about things. If you do not like a topic, or find it insulting, then its very simple...Dont post or read it!!!! There is a little feature called an 'ignore' button on everyones profile. If you dont like something someone is saying, IGNORE THEM!!!! Forth, I agree with TheEdge883...please keep the personal attacks down. Fifth, you talk about being cowards, stuck up people, losers, and stuck up people. I seriously think that you should go back and re-read ALL of YOUR posts. To me, and I'm sure to many others here as well, YOUR posts contain the very things that you accuse others of being. You talk about disrespect....Ok, and what do YOU think that you're doing by saying the things that YOU do towards others??? Sounds a little disrespectful to me!! Sixth, you are not the only person who knows Mr. Roman. Obviously, Mr. Billings and his instructor know him. This is NOT about Mr. Roman, it is about tapes/dvd/distance learning in general!!! It does not matter if we're talking about Roman or Larry Tatum, we are not talking about them as people, we are talking about the tapes!!! I wonder what Mr. Roman, if he was to read your posts, what his thoughts would be. I would hope that he would not look too kind upon them.


Mike

 

[Bill Lear]

Billy, many VERY good points here!! IMO, I feel that there is a greater satisfaction to work hard for something, especially something like a black belt, rather than to have it handed out to you after 365 days!

Mike

Mike,

The sad thing is that he sends the black belt (and certificate) to you immediately. The decision on when to tie it on is left to the video practitioner. (He uses the honor system. ) Three hundered and sixty five days would be an arguement in his favor that just isn't there.

 

[MJS]

Mike,

The sad thing is that he sends the black belt (and certificate) to you immediately. The decision on when to tie it on is left to the video practitioner. (He uses the honor system. ) Three hundered and sixty five days would be an arguement in his favor that just isn't there.

Billy, you are correct again! Again, I say that something like a BB, is something that should be earned through some damn hard work, not put in the mail. As someone who is training with a very good Kenpoist, (Mr.Tatum) and who has put in alot of hard work, I'm sure that the day of your BB test, will most likely be a VERY important and special part of your training.

What I dont understand, is, if you're going to do this video program, why not have all of the ranks mailed to you, in the proper order? Why start with Black, and then go backwards...if you want the others?

Mike

 

[Bald Bob]

A few questions for you.

1- Have these students that come to the school had any prior Kenpo training?

Some have had Kenpo training, all I have seen have had some sort of martial art training and the majority I have seen, to my surprise, have black belts in some other field.

2- Do you think that the quality of a video purple belt, going to be the same as the quality of a purple belt that has access to a school all the time?

All things being equal, no, and that is a dead horse that a lot of people in this forum seem to be kicking. Juco is not as good as a University, training BJJ with a trained BJJ black belt is not as good as being trained by Helio or Royce, video is not as good as face to face -- depending on the instructor. I have seen some Kenpo instructors whose one-on-one training is not as good as Grandmaster Roman's videos.

3- You said that they do quite well. How much correction, if any, do they need when they are showing these techs. in person?

Depends on the student. They almost always have areas that can be improved.

4- Do the video students have a very good understanding of the finer points of the tech, or do those need to be shown in detail in person?

See number 3 above. Also -- people who have been trained one-on-one by other instructors usually need fine-tuning. For example, crank Five Swords up to full force and you will find that, as it is usually taught, it sends the assailant spinning away rather than setting him up for the next strikes.

5- Is the video training going to stop at 1st degree, or is there an option available to them to continue the learning?

I don't know.

MJS thank you for posting one of the saner messages and thank you for bothering to ask questions! Many of the folks on this forum -- who must be out of work to be able to spend this much time! -- seem content to speculate about what "might be" and criticize from there. I was glad to respond to this set of questions and would do so again, given the time. Most of the comments are assertions in the absense of having laid any predicate for the conclusion -- and that just doesn't warrant a response.

PS Some of the righteous one-on-one instructors make seven year old kids black belts. Wow. Between video instruction and making kids black belts which do you think reflects most poorly on martial arts?



Mike

Again, MJS, thanks for your respectfully stated questions.

 

[Seig]

Admin Note
Keep the discussion polite and respectfull.
Personal attacks are not tolerated.
-Seig-
-MT Admin-

 

[MJS]

1- Have these students that come to the school had any prior Kenpo training?

Some have had Kenpo training, all I have seen have had some sort of martial art training and the majority I have seen, to my surprise, have black belts in some other field.

This proves my point. Notice that you said that all that you have seen had prior training. Therefore of course they're gonna look good...They already have a background, therefore making it easier.

2- Do you think that the quality of a video purple belt, going to be the same as the quality of a purple belt that has access to a school all the time?

All things being equal, no, and that is a dead horse that a lot of people in this forum seem to be kicking. Juco is not as good as a University, training BJJ with a trained BJJ black belt is not as good as being trained by Helio or Royce, video is not as good as face to face -- depending on the instructor. I have seen some Kenpo instructors whose one-on-one training is not as good as Grandmaster Roman's videos.

Let me explain something to you. People are not always fortunate enough to have the chance to live in Ca. and train with the Gracies. My BJJ instructor is trained under Roy Harris. Granted he is not a BB, but he definately knows his material. Short of me moving to CA. to train with Royce or Larry Tatum in Kenpo, people have to go with what they have. Personally, it is not a dead horse. In fact, its a very good point, and its something that YOU said in the first answer. Training by video is not as good as training in person. No matter how you try to slice it sir, its the truth.

3- You said that they do quite well. How much correction, if any, do they need when they are showing these techs. in person?

Depends on the student. They almost always have areas that can be improved.

Ok. That being said, it proves that one on one instruction is better than a tape! Even if I trained daily with Larry Tatum, of course I'd have things I'd need work on. The difference is, is that he would be right there all the time for me to ask my questions.

4- Do the video students have a very good understanding of the finer points of the tech, or do those need to be shown in detail in person?

See number 3 above. Also -- people who have been trained one-on-one by other instructors usually need fine-tuning. For example, crank Five Swords up to full force and you will find that, as it is usually taught, it sends the assailant spinning away rather than setting him up for the next strikes.

But this shows that the finer points are still not going to be shown on tape.

5- Is the video training going to stop at 1st degree, or is there an option available to them to continue the learning?

I don't know.

Ok. So if someone wants to continue training, their options are limited?

MJS thank you for posting one of the saner messages and thank you for bothering to ask questions! Many of the folks on this forum -- who must be out of work to be able to spend this much time! -- seem content to speculate about what "might be" and criticize from there. I was glad to respond to this set of questions and would do so again, given the time. Most of the comments are assertions in the absense of having laid any predicate for the conclusion -- and that just doesn't warrant a response.

You're welcome. Actually, I'm not at work right now. I'm currently working 3rd shift, so I have much free time during the day! I enjoy this forum. There are many very good people here, who have alot of knowledge. I have been fortunate enough to associate on a more personal level with a few members of this forum. Also, as I've said before, we are all different. My views are not going to be the same as another. Rather than jump down someones throat, maybe listening to what they are saying and asking questions of yor own, would be a much better option, than slinging mud! Lets keep ourselves as well as the Mods. happy!

PS Some of the righteous one-on-one instructors make seven year old kids black belts. Wow. Between video instruction and making kids black belts which do you think reflects most poorly on martial arts?

A 7yr BB???? I have to say, that I have seen VERY young kids wearing a BB, and IMHO, its very wrong. Personally, I would not put a BB around anyones waist until they are at least 16. But lets not start that debate here.

Mike

 

[MJS]

Thank you Joe.You guys are misinformed , to get your black belt certification you do have to test with the Chief.Its not easy, you have to be self motivated and really want it .Mr Roman has 38 years of martial arts training and in my opinion is one of the best!

Unless I missed it when I looked at the site, I saw nothing that said that you had to test with him to get your BB. It sounds to me like this. You send him the $, and he'll send you the belt! Does anyone else have thoughts on this???

Mike

 

[Doc]

I really think we owe it to him to have one of the Texans contact the local authorities to see if he's a 5150 looking for a place to happen.

Respectfully,

Dave

Not fair Dr. Dave. Most don't know what a 5150 is.
for those who don't, it refers to a section of the "Welfare and Institutions Code" of the State of California, that allows temporary commitment of individuals for the purpose of a medical assessment of their emotional and mental competency, to determine if they are a danger to themselves or others. I'm surprised no one asked. Anyway, I'd have to say, it sounds appropriate to me.

 

[Bill Lear]

Not fair Dr. Dave. Most don't know what a 5150 is.
for those who don't, it refers to a section of the "Welfare and Institutions Code" of the State of California, that allows temporary commitment of individuals for the purpose of a medical assessment of their emotional and mental competency, to determine if they are a danger to themselves or others. I'm surprised no one asked. Anyway, I'd have to say, it sounds appropriate to me.

Hey,

I know what a 5150 is! At least, that's what they've always called me when they've come to take me away.
:moon:

 

[Doc]

WARNING:

The following is a “Doc Rant.” Those easily offended by truth, logic, and common sense should avoid contact at all cost.

You know I’ve seen these threads on “video training” before, and I have to say the whole term sounds like an oxymoron to me. The primary argument seems to be, “There is no one that teaches kenpo close to me so what else can I do?”

This whole idea that somehow everyone has to be accommodated in someway in American society is ridiculous. I know a lot of people who wanted to go to a particular university but went to another instead because their preference was too far away, too expensive, or they couldn’t get in.

Then there are those who had dreams of a university but ended up working on their G.E.D., because they flunked out of high school. Believe it or not, everyone can’t nor are they “entitled” to do everything they want to do. They have an absolute right to pursue their desires, but nobody ever said it was going to be easy as looking at a video.

What it boils down to is what you are willing to accept in route, and how lofty your goals are. Now you may ultimately over time, with hard work, and perhaps some money get to your goal. Or you may just accept the G.E.D. and call it quits. No problem. It is after all about what you’re willing to accept. If the “G.E.D.” education is all that’s available to you at the moment, then you are doing the best you can do, until you can do better.

Just stop trying to convince everyone that because you’re working on your G.E.D. by video because that’s “all that’s available,” that it is equivalent to those in a university. Please. It is what it is.

And for the record, I never heard of anyone learning a physical activity to any degree of competency that requires an adversarial physical interaction with another where the intent is to inflict injury or death. Additionally anyone who thinks they can learn and attain competency through that medium is either being disingenuous with others, naive, or just fooling themselves.

I have never heard of anyone trying to learn to compete against others properly coached in football, Lacrosse, soccer, basketball, boxing, or even dodge ball by video. Of course learning to defend oneself in a multitude of variable situations where you may be seriously injured or killed is infinitely more difficult.

If I were in that situation, I would rather study anything with a real teacher, over a video. For me, that would be a “no brainer,” but to each his own. Just don’t tell me it’s just as good, and if you get a belt from it, well that’s like holding up your elementary school report card next to my advanced university degree and saying “they are the same.”

And although some video black belts will say they know they are not equivalent, when they stand in the company of competent black belts, they don’t volunteer they got theirs from video. That’s just human nature.

And for those who say they, “… have to study several times a year with a teacher in addition to the video training.” You’re kidding right? If I could have gotten a degree by showing up 4 times a year, I could have saved myself a ton of money. Why didn’t I think of that?

I know people like Dennis Conatser who didn’t live in Southern California who spent a ton of money coming to Pasadena every chance he could to learn from Ed Parker. Maybe he should have just stayed in Arizona and looked at the video. Yah think?

End rant.

 

[Doc]

Hey,

I know what a 5150 is! At least, that's what they've always called me when they've come to take me away.
:moon:

Billy, it doesn't count when you call them yourself just to get away.

 

[wisdomstrikes]

This is getting old, but I still enjoy the silliness. Hell, if I could have become a DEA agent by just watching a video, I would be twice the agent I am today.
:idunno:
-Wisdomstrikes

 

[Doc]

This is getting old, but I still enjoy the silliness. Hell, if I could have become a DEA agent by just watching a video, I would be twice the agent I am today.
:idunno:
-Wisdomstrikes

Would you happen to know the name R.P. (Doc) Murdock, L.A. office?

 

[Bill Lear]

Billy, it doesn't count when you call them yourself just to get away.

Okay... Okay... I'll have to start running down the street naked screaming, "I am Napoleon, you fools!!!" again.

:lol: