Another Get your Kenpo Blackbelt at home.

[marshallbd]

Unless I missed it when I looked at the site, I saw nothing that said that you had to test with him to get your BB. It sounds to me like this. You send him the $, and he'll send you the belt! Does anyone else have thoughts on this???

Mike

That's exactly what Mr Roman told me when I called the number to ask him about the testing process because I was sure that I misread his web site. He told me that my signed black belt cert would arrive within 10 days and that in 1 year I would be eligible for a franchise for an Ungodly amount of money in his Red Warrior system eligible for discounted seminars. Now that is just a bunch of crap in my humble opinion....By the way, when I told him I couldn't afford the DVD's for a while, he dropped the price to $495 because he was running a "special that was only good until the next day".... Needless to say I passed on the offer.... Unlike some of the others that post on this subject, I feel that you can learn an art off of video when tested on video as well but would only use this option if it were the ONLY way I could train....I will change arts rather than do the video thing for now... :asian:

 

[marshallbd]

Not fair Dr. Dave. Most don't know what a 5150 is.
for those who don't, it refers to a section of the "Welfare and Institutions Code" of the State of California, that allows temporary commitment of individuals for the purpose of a medical assessment of their emotional and mental competency, to determine if they are a danger to themselves or others. I'm surprised no one asked. Anyway, I'd have to say, it sounds appropriate to me.

In Colorado its an "M5" :asian:

 

[marshallbd]

It's remotely possible that there is a troll amongst us.

I'm pretty new to this internet stuff....what's a troll? :asian:

 

[MJS]

That's exactly what Mr Roman told me when I called the number to ask him about the testing process because I was sure that I misread his web site. He told me that my signed black belt cert would arrive within 10 days and that in 1 year I would be eligible for a franchise for an Ungodly amount of money in his Red Warrior system eligible for discounted seminars. Now that is just a bunch of crap in my humble opinion....By the way, when I told him I couldn't afford the DVD's for a while, he dropped the price to $495 because he was running a "special that was only good until the next day".... Needless to say I passed on the offer.... Unlike some of the others that post on this subject, I feel that you can learn an art off of video when tested on video as well but would only use this option if it were the ONLY way I could train....I will change arts rather than do the video thing for now... :asian:

Gee, that was big of him to drop the price $500!! :boing2: Oh, and I cant forget the franchise opportunity too!

As for learning off a tape. Anything is possible. I mean, a cookbook will teach you how to make a fancy dinner, but it wont make you a gourmet chef!

Mike

 

[MJS]

I'm pretty new to this internet stuff....what's a troll? :asian:

Pretty much, its someone who joins a forum, usually with an anonymous name, giving little to no background about themselves. They will start a topic, usually something stupid, talk about having knowledge about a topic, but they'll get pissed if you start to question them about the topic. Just search through a few of the different threads on this forum. I'm more than sure you'll be able to figure them out.

Mike

 

[marshallbd]

Pretty much, its someone who joins a forum, usually with an anonymous name, giving little to no background about themselves. They will start a topic, usually something stupid, talk about having knowledge about a topic, but they'll get pissed if you start to question them about the topic. Just search through a few of the different threads on this forum. I'm more than sure you'll be able to figure them out.

Mike

Thanks :asian:

 

[marshallbd]

Gee, that was big of him to drop the price $500!! :boing2: Oh, and I cant forget the franchise opportunity too!

As for learning off a tape. Anything is possible. I mean, a cookbook will teach you how to make a fancy dinner, but it wont make you a gourmet chef!

Mike

I don't mean to say that I believe the skill of a black belt (trained realistically with a live instructor)could be developed from video but I do believe video is better than nothing at all.... I originally started looking into the video training because I was thinking of taking a 6 month job at Mcmurdo AS in the antarctic. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to find a school or instructor there!!! :asian:

 

[Shiatsu]

My question is a rather easy one. I agree with what Doc is saying. However I consider Larry Tatum at the top of the class as for American kenpo. However doesn't he offer a video training course as well?

 

[Ceicei]

My question is a rather easy one. I agree with what Doc is saying. However I consider Larry Tatum at the top of the class as for American kenpo. However doesn't he offer a video training course as well?

I don't think Mr. Tatum offers his videos to be accompanied with a belt nor does he, after students only view/use them, issue belts. My understanding is he makes these videos to be used as a visual reference source. But then again, I haven't seen Mr. Tatum's promotional ads so I don't know for sure about his videos.

- Ceicei

 

[arnisador]

I'm pretty new to this internet stuff....what's a troll? :asian:

You've gotten a good answer already; troublemaking for fun is the key idea. See:
http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/t/troll.html
http://www.netlingo.com/lookup.cfm?term=troll

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I don't think Mr. Tatum offers his videos to be accompanied with a belt nor does he, after students only view/use them, issue belts. My understanding is he makes these videos to be used as a visual reference source. But then again, I haven't seen Mr. Tatum's promotional ads so I don't know for sure about his videos.

- Ceicei

I've been in kenpo for most of my life. I still cannot remember details about which tech comes where in a given form (I can cram it in, learn an entire form in a night and remember it for as long as I'm training it...give me 1 month off, and everything slides right off the teflon brain). I'm ordering Mr. Tatums SD tech series, as well as the forms. Not to learn from for the first time, but for memory joggers. One of the problems of training in multiple kenpo offshoots is that you learn several ways of doing the same technique. I.E., is Rolling Talon from Kenpo, TAI, Lima Lama, Elua Lima, etc. Five swords, seven sowrds, ... about a dozen different interps of thundering hammers, each with something different & cool about it. When someone says, "show thundering hammers"...brain goes in a spin trying to figger out which one, and why.

I think videos as a reference resource are fine, but I'm not trying to learn a new thing here, or even get a rank from it. If I ever meet Mr. Tatum, it certainly won't be to test for a rank based on stuff I learned from his series. I've learned this stuff before, and now need a refresher that's based on the convenience of my own schedule, and not the Monday/Wednesday night at 7:00 PM availability of advanced classes.

Bald Bob slipped on a thread in Western Arts forum, saying people short-changed Mr. Roman...that if you view his website, and talk to him on the phone, he's really a nice guy. His dialogue partner reminded him, "you mean'train' with him"...

Meanwhile, he lists himself as a kenpo black belt. Has he ever even met the guy who granted it to him? Or did it just show up overnight express?

marshallbd: You have a good brain and an open heart; I'm sure whatever choices you have to make will be appropriate for the circumstance, as well as accompanied by an understanding that the power of the resources are not the same.

If you ever get out to Cali in your travels, I'd be glad to work out with you and support you however I may.

Meanwhile, keep your BS detectors on...thier are lots of guys like the Chief out there.

Dr. Dave

 

[Doc]

Let me put it another way......

If someone trained in Kenpo, any kenpo, or by studying video, any video, by anybody, no matter how long, or what belt they had before, or after ...

They wouldn't be able to pass a yellow belt test from me.

 

[MJS]

Let me put it another way......

If someone trained in Kenpo, any kenpo, or by studying video, any video, by anybody, no matter how long, or what belt they had before, or after ...

They wouldn't be able to pass a yellow belt test from me.

So, if someone was a black belt under Larry Tatum and then wanted instruction from you, you're pretty much saying that that black belt isnt worth anything??

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but thats the way it sounds to me.

Mike

 

[The Kai]

In regards to the video training , there is no substitute for a teacher.
Speaking for myself I could teach the nuts and bolts of my system in about 9 months, yet training takes about 4 years to BB. Why, corrrection, integration and attitude.
I have seen Video trained Black belts and personally feel that they do nothing to add to the value of the Kenpo community (my opinion). Living in the midwest I take the oppurtunity to bring the teachers in to my area- simple rule I don't know it till I am personally taught, molded and corrected by the teacher.
Kenpo is such a fantasic art, at what point does this video foolishness water us down (too much??)
_todd

 

[Doc]

So, if someone was a black belt under Larry Tatum and then wanted instruction from you, you're pretty much saying that that black belt isnt worth anything??
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but thats the way it sounds to me.
Mike

Maybe you should read it again sir. I thought I was pretty clear, and never did I use the word "worthless" in any of my post or descriptions. The worth of any product is set by the consumer. That is why video training exists, becuase it has worth to those that suscribe to it.

Worth is also determined by established communities, groups, and associations of like minded people and that worth may or may not be transferable between them.

To use an education analogy, (because that's the way I teach), If you have a Ph.D. and you decide to enter medical school to become a surgeon, is your Ph.D. "worthless?" You will start from the beginning and be subjected to the same structure as every other person who wishes to become a surgeon. Your previous education may or may not be an asset to you as an individual, but will have no bearing on "what" you must do to become a surgeon.

In Kenpo terms, a number of years ago a transfer of black belt students from another school in Southern California to my primary teachng location occurred. One of them was a first generation student of Ed Parker who began with him in 1964 of substantial rank. The others also had considerable rank as well and also currently at the time studied with another first generation student of Ed Parker, and one of them was his top student. It was made clear to them what they had to do to be accepted. After a lesson or two to make my point, they all began working on their basics and "yellow belt" curriculum. The worth of their previous belts, ranks, and training is determined by them in their own mind. I did what I was supposed to do and began teaching them from the beginning to insure they acquired what I feel they should know and be capable of as their teacher.

The fallicy of "all kenpo being the same" is something I have constantly reminded forum readers and posters of. The term is almost generic and the level of skill, knowledge, and methodologies is as diverse as the above analogy and more. I have many "transfer students" from other kenpo and teachers, and they ALL regardless of previous study exclusive of rank start over from the beginning. Clearly they all found "worth" in that idea. The only ones that have left are the ones who no longer live in Southern California. The rest continue to study, and that first generation student of Parker is still one of them. Apparently all these people felt what they had to do was "worth" it. "Worth" is an individual decision. I have made a value decision on the "worth" of what and how I teach and do not compromise my standards. Others must do the same for themselves. It's not for me to say, unless you want to study with me, then you know what you have to do.

 

[MJS]

Maybe you should read it again sir. I thought I was pretty clear, and never did I use the word "worthless" in any of my post or descriptions. The worth of any product is set by the consumer. That is why video training exists, becuase it has worth to those that suscribe to it.

Yup, looks like I misunderstood you. Thanks for clearing it up!

Mike

 

[Bill Lear]

Yup, looks like I misunderstood you. Thanks for clearing it up!



Mike

Everyone has a hard time understanding the good 'ol Doctor from time to time. Just ask one of the nurses that watch over him at the old folks home.

:idunno:

As for people from elsewhere not being able to pass a yellow belt test under Ron Chapel... He's right. They probably woiuldn't. He doesn't teach the same things we do.

:asian:

 

[Doc]

Everyone has a hard time understanding the good 'ol Doctor from time to time. Just ask one of the nurses that watch over him at the old folks home.

I'll have you know some of those nurses have some really big ti ... hey you tried to trick me!

As for people from elsewhere not being able to pass a yellow belt test under Ron Chapel... He's right. They probably woiuldn't. He doesn't teach the same things we do.

Actually I do teach the same thing, however I teach it differently based on human anatomy (like the Chinese, and what Parker did) instead of motion. I'm just in a different wing of the same hospital.

 

[marshallbd]

marshallbd: You have a good brain and an open heart; I'm sure whatever choices you have to make will be appropriate for the circumstance, as well as accompanied by an understanding that the power of the resources are not the same.

If you ever get out to Cali in your travels I'd be glad to work out with you and support you however I may.

Meanwhile, keep your BS detectors on...thier are lots of guys like the Chief out there.

Dr. Dave

I appreciate it. Where abouts in Cali are you at. I am originally from Santa Clara CA and do make it out there every other year to visit family.... :asian:

 

[jeffkyle]

Okay... Okay... I'll have to start running down the street naked screaming, "I am Napoleon, you fools!!!" again.

:lol:

HAHAHAHAHAHA! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: