Angles of Attack- Modern Arnis vs Balintawak

[Mickey]

Originally posted by DoctorB
That is another example of how we get slightly different versions of how Modern Arnis is done and taught. Professor was not totally consistant in his approach to the art, but the root elements remain the same. Things get switched to fit a particular need or situation - that is part of the meaning behind Professor's comment that "You make it for yourself."

On the other hand, Rich, what has been discussed here between you and Dan, does not in any way change the value of what I wrote in response to Bloodwood's question. Professor taught both a basic and a traditional striking system as part of the Modern Arnis program.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

Dr. Barber,

I have read this thread and I seen other the many posts, no one came out and said you were wrong, only what they had experienced themselves.

Good Posts and different opinions are what this site is about.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Doctor B,

My Apolgoies if you thought I was trying to invalidate your post. I said no disrepesct, only trying to offer more data points.

I think the Professor, (* To some *), GM Presas (* To others *) and Remy (* (No Disrepect meant at all he told me to call him this.) To me and others also *) had unique relationships with everyone. I know I do not have the exact same relationship with all my friends. So, it could be that this another point of difference.

I think if you were to ask anyone, to tell you how they were taught, no two people would be exactly the same, method or style. Yet, if you ask a group of people who saw an accident , not one will see what the others saw completely. They will all remember sometign sltighly different. This does not mean that any of them are wrong.

Best Regards
:asian:

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
This would have to be the basic 1-12. As for the Tapi-Tapi, yes the 6& 7 and 10 & 11 were switched and yes this is very very similar to the Balintawak Abecedario, not quite the same but real close.

Rich,
I hope to connect up with Manong Ted when I come out in April and then I will learn correctly the Balintawak Abedecario. Coolness ahead in the future.

Yours,
Dan

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons

I think if you were to ask anyone, to tell you how they were taught, no two people would be exactly the same, method or style. Yet, if you ask a group of people who saw an accident , not one will see what the others saw completely. They will all remember something slightly different. This does not mean that any of them are wrong.

Best Regards
:asian:

Rikki,
You win a free beer for that observation! Is that ever the truth! You may collect from me the next time we see each other. The big trick is to ensure one gets the root concepts of what was taught and the variations are frosting on the cake.

Yours,
Dan

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson
Rikki,
You win a free beer for that observation! Is that ever the truth! You may collect from me the next time we see each other. The big trick is to ensure one gets the root concepts of what was taught and the variations are frosting on the cake.

Yours,
Dan

Danny BOY!

I tried to double click on the 'Free Beer' Link but could not get it to work!


Seriously, the next time we see each other :drinkbeer :cheers:

 

[bloodwood]

Thanks
Some good information has been put out there during your posts. I am a little wiser from your efforts.
I think comparing Modern Arnis and Balintawak is excellent. It draws out the differences and similarities in the two systems and bridges the gap, thus allowing for integration of the two while training. Both are flexible arts which makes them fun to explore the endless possibilities.

Always the student
Bloodwood :asian:

 

[norshadow1]

Originally posted by Mickey
Dr. Barber,

I have read this thread and I seen other the many posts, no one came out and said you were wrong, only what they had experienced themselves.

Good Posts and different opinions are what this site is about.

Nice idea, Mick, but I believe what Doc was refering to was to the point that Bloodwood asked a specific question which he answered. All of the other posts talked around the specific question. It is very clear to me from what has been posted by all of the others, that Doc's statement that professor often taught differently from time to time and place to place is correct. But even that goes beyond Bloodwood's question of why did professor teach both the Balintawak and Modern Arnis striking systems.

Lamont

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by DoctorB
That is another example of how we get slightly different versions of how Modern Arnis is done and taught. Professor was not totally consistant in his approach to the art, but the root elements remain the same. Things get switched to fit a particular need or situation - that is part of the meaning behind Professor's comment that "You make it for yourself."

On the other hand, Rich, what has been discussed here between you and Dan, does not in any way change the value of what I wrote in response to Bloodwood's question. Professor taught both a basic and a traditional striking system as part of the Modern Arnis program.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

I think this is illustrative of the fact that Modern Arnis was (and, I would assume, still is) a "living" system. That it continues to evolve.

All the systems that I train in are like this, and, I would venture, that most systems are like this.

The only time it becomes a problem is when someone from one "evolutionary cycle" tries to "correct" someone from another cycle. In most instances, both are "correct."

An illustration of this principle happened last year with one of my friends. He and I have both trained in Balintawak under the same instructor. Our instructor earned his "Completion of Art" in Balintawak under GM Bobby many years ago. He's been training and teaching what he learned since then, but hasn't sought to go for his "Master" rank.

Several years back, one of Bobby's newer instructors saw me and some friends training and he told us that what we were doing was "wrong." We paid attention to what he said, but once he was gone, we just kind of shrugged it off because we trust our instructor and know that when we saw Bobby in '95, he was teaching the same stuff we had learned from our instructor.

Last year, one of my peers, Steve, attended a seminar with GM Bobby. Steve asked GM Bobby about the differences we'd seen from this other instructor. Bobby's response was, "No. What you have is valid and it's Balintawak. I teach some stuff differently now, but that doesn't invalidate what you've got."

I think a lot of people (especially fresh instructors) don't understand this and it becomes the root of a fair amount of misunderstanding and tension.

Mike

 

[lightninghands]

I do the Taboada 12 strikes, but I'm into Tabimina style of balintawak, I think both of them came from the Villasin Lineage

 

[Rich Parsons]

I do the Taboada 12 strikes, but I'm into Tabimina style of balintawak, I think both of them came from the Villasin Lineage

GM Toboada did train with GM Villasin. I also think he had the chance while he was younger to meet and work out at least once with GM Anciong Bacon. (* I saw one picture *)

Sir Bobby Tabimina (* as his students call him out of respect *) did start out with the GM Villasin School but he also did train with GM Bacon. Being from the GM Buot Family, I can see the subtle differences in preferences (* that exist between people to people and family to family *) in some moves that have GM Bacon's. He also leans forward like many of the GM Villasin family. So Tabimina is from both.