Addy Hernandez on the Ultimate Self Defence

[exile]

As I just indicated, uh, elsewhere , I couldn't agree with you more, Andy...

 

[elder999]

Well, I happened to read the article in question-while I was standing in line in the grocery store, I hardly ever buy that particular magazine. I went back and bought it, though.

First off, I'm going to say that I've no opinion one way or the other on Joseph Simonet and his KI concepts.What I know of him, I only know through hearsay, and it's gone both ways, and I have nothing else to base an opinion on him from. From his bio on his webpage, though:

Simonet is now an 8th degree black belt in Tracy's Kenpo Karate. He has attained 2nd degree level in Grand Master Cacoy Canete's Escrido. He also became Master Chris Petrilli's first black belt student, in 1998. Simonet has since attained 4th level black belt under Chris Petrilli in Doce Pares. He is a certified instructor in Yang Style Tai Chi under Dr. John Candea and a Guru with a 2nd degree black belt in Pentjak Silat Serak.
Mr. Simonet reached black sash level in Wing Chung Gung Fu during the late 1980's.

And, while I didn't find Ms. Hernandez's article on line, I can pretty much quote it verbatim:

I currently hold black belts and/or teacher's certificates in the following arts:Yang style tai chi, wing chun gung fu, doce pares (Filipino stick and knife), pentjaak silat and Tracy's kenpo karate.

Only one really adresses the immediate needs of defending oneself to the fullest.

She then proceeds to descibe various scenarios where each of the arts mentioned is proven deficient against an MMA fighter. The tai chi and wing chun fighters are "overwhelmed" by the MMA fighter, the doce pares and silat fighters are unable to answer without their knives. Then, of course:

Finally, let's take a look at Tracy's Kenpo Karate, the most complete self-defense system I've ever seen.A kenpo practitioner in the Octagon would have the best chance of winning.

The reasoning behind this is that the kenpo stylist would win with techniques that are illegal in the Octagon, because kenpo is "for the str33ts," and "over 50 of the beginning orange belt level techniques from kenpo are banned in the Octagon because they are potentially life threatening" and :

It is a bit ironic that the Tracy system of kenpo is often referred to as a McDojo franchised, watered-down, sloppy karate system, when in fact it is one of the world's true self-defense systems with the potential to take out an MMA veteran using beginning-level techniques.

Of course, I kind of think this probably has something to do with the fact that both Ms. Hernandez and Mr. Simonet are somewhat......under-ranked to be considered "authorities" in anything but Tracy's kenpo, and Mr. Simonet's promotion to 9th dan in Tracy's Kenpo last year.........

Not to knock what they do, like I said. In fact, I find it pretty interesting. :wink:

 

[geezer]

...She (Addy Hernandez) then proceeds to descibe various scenarios where each of the arts mentioned is proven deficient against an MMA fighter. The tai chi and wing chun fighters are "overwhelmed" by the MMA fighter, the doce pares and silat fighters are unable to answer without their knives...

Of course, I kind of think this probably has something to do with the fact that both Ms. Hernandez and Mr. Simonet are somewhat......under-ranked to be considered "authorities" in anything but Tracy's kenpo, and Mr. Simonet's promotion to 9th dan in Tracy's Kenpo last year.........

Not to knock what they do, like I said. In fact, I find it pretty interesting. :wink:

Mr. Simonet has achieved full instructor/black belt/black sash in all those styles (Escrido, Doce Pares, Pentjak Silat, Wing Chun and Tai Chi, in addition to a very high level master's rank in Tracy's Kenpo)?

That's really something. I would love to master one or two systems and have a working knowledge of a bit more. I'd also love to learn French, German, Italian, and Chinese. And, I guess it can be done. I know a woman, an American yet, who is fluent in about half a dozen languages. But alas I am a mere mortal. At least I'm told I speak American English well and my Spanish is acceptable. Similarly, my Wing Tsun is solid and my Escrima is passable.

There are those who feel that it if you master one or two things well you are better off than trying to do it all. If Mr. Simonet really acheived the high level he apparently claims in all those arts, it seems he should be able to apply them on the street as well. They all have the necessary techniques if you apply the mentality.

 

[punisher73]

Just thought I would add that the founder of Tracy's Kenpo (originally Ed Parker) was a Judo BB. Also, MANY of the defense techniques against grabs were originally designed against a response to a trained grappler. The early kenpo was influenced by Danzen-Ryu JJ and counters to it. If you take the Tracy lineage back further from Parker to Chow and Mitose those were also very familiar with grappling methods and how to defeat them. This was one reason why they didn't have much ground fighting like we see in MMA/BJJ.

Are there other arts out there that deal with "MMA style" things? Sure, are they systematically spelled out like in certain kenpo styles, not sure.

As to the other argument about the ROK army and their record using TKD. That is besides the point. What if they would have trained in kenpo? It was their attitude and training methods that made them so formitable not necessarily the art alone.

 

[exile]

As to the other argument about the ROK army and their record using TKD. That is besides the point. What if they would have trained in kenpo? It was their attitude and training methods that made them so formitable not necessarily the art alone.

Read my posts, punisher, and you'll see that that was exactly the point I was making. It was AH who was talking about arts per se, not about training methods. My point about the ROK, in my original and followup posts, was precisely that if you train for CQ all-out violent combat, you're going to have an effective fighting style covering all relevant ranges. The point, which I think I made explicitly, was that any art that's trained for close-in fighting ranges will be effective; the use of TKD as a combative system by the ROK infantry was simply an example which effectively illustrates that point, given the Korean army's track record in two wars. Your comments are more properly directed toward Herndandez' talking about particular arts, rather than particular training goals.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I find that the best art for the street is Bob Bondurant Ryu Autojujutsu. I particularly find the drift waza to be extremely effective. Draft waza works quite well on the tournament cirucuit as well, and..

oh..

Sorry. Wrong 'street' art.

Daniel

 

[MJS]

Just to bring this back for discussion, as I think there're many good points to still discussion, I thought we could look at exactly what Mr. Simonet teaches, how he teaches, and why they feel it is the best art suited for defeating MMA.