A Brief History of Taekwon-Do by General Choi
- Thread starter puunui
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KarateMomUSA
Black Belt
Good points & I heard that Mrs Choi was getting all 3 done in betterer English, as the 1st 2 volumes are a hard read with the translation.
chrispillertkd
Senior Master
I hope so. The current translation is torturous to read and there are a couple of places where the text repeats itself. Wish they had invested in a good editor and typesetter the first time around.
Pax,
Chris
Pax,
Chris
KarateMomUSA
Black Belt
No he was actually fairly consistent throughout. He repeats many of these same things in his newer books & even expands on them in sections like "The Origins & Development of the Martial Arts", "Soo Bak Gi & Taek Kyon in the Koryo Dynasty", "Definition of TKD" & "The History of TKD".
Now Puunui, here are some direct questions for you personally:
1) Did you ever meet Gen Choi?
2) If so did you ever speak with him directly?
3) Did you ever communicate with him in any way?
4) Did you ever train under him?
5) Did you ever attend any training session with him?
no, no, no, no, and no. There was a time when I was interested in meeting him, but that time has long past. If he were still alive, I don't think I would take the opportunity to speak with him, even if the opportunity presented himself. I read his books, or at least I tried to, and that is enough for me. In my opinion, his self centered me myself and I agenda is the anti-thesis of what I believe Taekwondo is all about. I am repelled by the readily apparent selfishness of General Choi and don't wish to associate with him at all.
I like the pioneers, both Kukkiwon/WTF ones in Korea as well as the USTU pioneers. They didn't always agree, but the one thing that attracted them to such organizations in the first place was their desire to meaningfully participate and build something from scratch in a cooperative unified fashion. That appeals to me and attracts and interests me. I feel positive and good when I think about the pioneers. I feel mentally and emotionally disturbed when I think about General Choi, to the point where I don't want to talk about him anymore. The man beat a horse with punches and kicks and bragged about it in his book. Stuff like that.
KarateMomUSA
Black Belt
Quote:Originally Posted by KarateMomUSA 
Now Puunui, here are some direct questions for you personally:
1) Did you ever meet Gen Choi?
2) If so did you ever speak with him directly?
3) Did you ever communicate with him in any way?
4) Did you ever train under him?
5) Did you ever attend any training session with him?
Now Puunui, here are some direct questions for you personally:
1) Did you ever meet Gen Choi?
2) If so did you ever speak with him directly?
3) Did you ever communicate with him in any way?
4) Did you ever train under him?
5) Did you ever attend any training session with him?
All I can say is wow!
Now KarateMomUSA, here are some direct questions for you personally:
1) Did you ever meet Gen Choi?
2) If so did you ever speak with him directly?
3) Did you ever communicate with him in any way?
4) Did you ever train under him?
5) Did you ever attend any training session with him?
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Drum roll please........................
The more interesting question might be whom else "Mom" has trained with / communicated with who has direct experience from the 1950's or even earlier and later.
chrispillertkd
Senior Master
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
History of TKD?
ok, some korean guys were bb's in shotokan, and wanted something to call their own, so they basically made up some history, took shotokan forms and re-arranged them, called them something new, and BOOM, TKD came to be.
anything else in addition to these facts is made up history
ok, some korean guys were bb's in shotokan, and wanted something to call their own, so they basically made up some history, took shotokan forms and re-arranged them, called them something new, and BOOM, TKD came to be.
anything else in addition to these facts is made up history
KarateMomUSA
Black Belt
I agree for the most part. You miss that not all of them got black belts & there was some Chinese martial art influence as well, so it was not limited to just Shotokan
No not really. The fabrication that TKD is 2,000 years old is made up history, made up to show that Koreans had martial arts a long time ago. But we know that this, whether true or not, has little direct connection to TKD, which was a 20th century creation by Koreans in Korea that had karate from Japan which served as the basis for the respective developmental paths taken forward from those common roots.
So we must get away from the made up history & recognize that the true history is the telling of how these Koreans put together their respective martial activities that they all call TKD. It will of course start with the 7 Koreans that lived abroad during the occupation period & while there were introduced to the martial arts, which was starting to take hold. These 7 Koreans were responsible for opening & teaching at the 6 early kwans. It was 2 of these 7 & their 1st generation students who eventually gave the world TKD, both a Korean martial art & sport, that has become an Olympic sport & the world's most practiced martial art.
So once we get past all the fluff, stick to the basics, we can start to really grasp what happened, where & when did it occur, along with who played a part in giving this great gift to the world.
Hollywood1340
2nd Black Belt
I do notice the drum role wasn't answered. This has been most entertaining.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
I like this. It should continmue:
Founder of Shotokan wanted.... had some experience in Shorin and Shorei.....and
Founder of Shorin....... had some experiece in Shaolin...
I think a lot of people noticed. I also think it is quite rude to ask me questions, expecting an answer, I answer, ask the very same questions, and the person completely ignores it. It cuts tremendously into the poster's credibility and goes directly to my point that this discussion has been mainly one sided.
That might be true if Taekwondo were a carbon copy of Shotokan, but it isn't. Also, which Shotokan are we speaking about, the Shotokan from pre 1944, or post WWII Shotokan, because the two are not the same.
I do some Shotokan forms,a couple are rearranged somewhat by Mu Duk Kwan pioneers and some straight up Shotokan,according to what I can compare them to on the web and from some I have seen at tournaments.
The KKW forms are quite different in their stances and the way the power is delivered, they do not look like Chinese styles either, I would have to say they are unique to KKW style. Their are two poomse in development that resemble modern TKD even more, but they are still not being released as official yet.
One should realise that KKW TKD is scientific in nature and is always evolving and being studied with modern tools to make it faster and more powerful.
This is alien to those who feel traditional ways are better or cannot be improved. I think we should not think of KKW TKD as anything but a very modern and progressive martial art.
Korean martial arts are however older than what a few BB's brought back or learned from the Japanese.
KarateMomUSA
Black Belt
Yes I have seen some examples of the new sports Poomsae & they are definitely more TKD looking. I would also say that an argument can be made that all martial art techniques are similar & even though they may be arranged differently they will still have the feel for some that they are still similar. For me what I think helps the ITF Tuls stand apart is they way they move & how they formed the techniques.
KarateMomUSA
Black Belt
Yes I did see this & didn't think there was a set time frame that a response was required by.
Maybe I just like a longer drum roll.
If you see the ITF forms done by experts I'd say they are quite artistic as well as technical, but to me very Japanese.
The KKW forms are also very artistic and very powerful,when done by the experts.The power being generated is smooth from relaxed to explosion.
Either one can be so messed up by most practicioners as to give bad impressions.
KKW can look weak and inefective,ITF can look like bouncing and spitting.
IMHO,which with a $1.00 won't get you a pack of juicy fruit.
