A Brief History of Taekwon-Do by General Choi

[Daniel Sullivan]

What good does that do me, there is no purple belt in Taekwon-Do!

Different art, lol.

Daniel

 

[KarateMomUSA]

True enough. I will say this, however, Gen. Choi's autiobiography really "let's it all hang out." He talks about the good and the bad and the impression I got from reading it was that he went to some lengths to give an accurate portrayal of his life. There were several incidents that he wrote about in his book that made me wonder why he was talking about them at all as he doesn't come out in a particularly good light in them.

I'm hoping that at some point the third volume gets translated into English. Maybe one day, but it was supposed to be in the works for several years now and I haven't seen any sign of it as yet.

Pax,

Chris

Good points & I heard that Mrs Choi was getting all 3 done in betterer English, as the 1st 2 volumes are a hard read with the translation.

 

[chrispillertkd]

I hope so. The current translation is torturous to read and there are a couple of places where the text repeats itself. Wish they had invested in a good editor and typesetter the first time around.

Pax,

Chris

 

[KarateMomUSA]

But that is what General Choi did, say that it was 1300 years old, in his 1965 english book. Try and read the first post above. He might be saying something different now in the encyclopedia, but that isn't what he said back in 1965.

No he was actually fairly consistent throughout. He repeats many of these same things in his newer books & even expands on them in sections like "The Origins & Development of the Martial Arts", "Soo Bak Gi & Taek Kyon in the Koryo Dynasty", "Definition of TKD" & "The History of TKD".

Now Puunui, here are some direct questions for you personally:
1) Did you ever meet Gen Choi?
2) If so did you ever speak with him directly?
3) Did you ever communicate with him in any way?
4) Did you ever train under him?
5) Did you ever attend any training session with him?

 

[puunui]

Now Puunui, here are some direct questions for you personally:
1) Did you ever meet Gen Choi?
2) If so did you ever speak with him directly?
3) Did you ever communicate with him in any way?
4) Did you ever train under him?
5) Did you ever attend any training session with him?

no, no, no, no, and no. There was a time when I was interested in meeting him, but that time has long past. If he were still alive, I don't think I would take the opportunity to speak with him, even if the opportunity presented himself. I read his books, or at least I tried to, and that is enough for me. In my opinion, his self centered me myself and I agenda is the anti-thesis of what I believe Taekwondo is all about. I am repelled by the readily apparent selfishness of General Choi and don't wish to associate with him at all.

I like the pioneers, both Kukkiwon/WTF ones in Korea as well as the USTU pioneers. They didn't always agree, but the one thing that attracted them to such organizations in the first place was their desire to meaningfully participate and build something from scratch in a cooperative unified fashion. That appeals to me and attracts and interests me. I feel positive and good when I think about the pioneers. I feel mentally and emotionally disturbed when I think about General Choi, to the point where I don't want to talk about him anymore. The man beat a horse with punches and kicks and bragged about it in his book. Stuff like that.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

Quote:Originally Posted by KarateMomUSA
Now Puunui, here are some direct questions for you personally:
1) Did you ever meet Gen Choi?
2) If so did you ever speak with him directly?
3) Did you ever communicate with him in any way?
4) Did you ever train under him?
5) Did you ever attend any training session with him?

no, no, no, no, and no. There was a time when I was interested in meeting him, but that time has long past. If he were still alive, I don't think I would take the opportunity to speak with him, even if the opportunity presented himself. I read his books, or at least I tried to, and that is enough for me. In my opinion, his self centered me myself and I agenda is the anti-thesis of what I believe Taekwondo is all about. I am repelled by the readily apparent selfishness of General Choi and don't wish to associate with him at all.

I like the pioneers, both Kukkiwon/WTF ones in Korea as well as the USTU pioneers. They didn't always agree, but the one thing that attracted them to such organizations in the first place was their desire to meaningfully participate and build something from scratch in a cooperative unified fashion. That appeals to me and attracts and interests me. I feel positive and good when I think about the pioneers. I feel mentally and emotionally disturbed when I think about General Choi, to the point where I don't want to talk about him anymore. The man beat a horse with punches and kicks and bragged about it in his book. Stuff like that.

All I can say is wow!

 

[puunui]

All I can say is wow!

Now KarateMomUSA, here are some direct questions for you personally:
1) Did you ever meet Gen Choi?
2) If so did you ever speak with him directly?
3) Did you ever communicate with him in any way?
4) Did you ever train under him?
5) Did you ever attend any training session with him?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Now KarateMomUSA, here are some direct questions for you personally:
1) Did you ever meet Gen Choi?
2) If so did you ever speak with him directly?
3) Did you ever communicate with him in any way?
4) Did you ever train under him?
5) Did you ever attend any training session with him?

Drum roll please...........................

 

[Earl Weiss]

Now KarateMomUSA, here are some direct questions for you personally:
1) Did you ever meet Gen Choi?
2) If so did you ever speak with him directly?
3) Did you ever communicate with him in any way?
4) Did you ever train under him?
5) Did you ever attend any training session with him?

Drum roll please........................

The more interesting question might be whom else "Mom" has trained with / communicated with who has direct experience from the 1950's or even earlier and later.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Drum roll please...........................

Heh.



Pax,

Chris

 

[Twin Fist]

History of TKD?

ok, some korean guys were bb's in shotokan, and wanted something to call their own, so they basically made up some history, took shotokan forms and re-arranged them, called them something new, and BOOM, TKD came to be.


anything else in addition to these facts is made up history

 

[KarateMomUSA]

History of TKD?
ok, some korean guys were bb's in shotokan, and wanted something to call their own, so they basically made up some history, took shotokan forms and re-arranged them, called them something new, and BOOM, TKD came to be.

I agree for the most part. You miss that not all of them got black belts & there was some Chinese martial art influence as well, so it was not limited to just Shotokan

anything else in addition to these facts is made up history

No not really. The fabrication that TKD is 2,000 years old is made up history, made up to show that Koreans had martial arts a long time ago. But we know that this, whether true or not, has little direct connection to TKD, which was a 20th century creation by Koreans in Korea that had karate from Japan which served as the basis for the respective developmental paths taken forward from those common roots.

So we must get away from the made up history & recognize that the true history is the telling of how these Koreans put together their respective martial activities that they all call TKD. It will of course start with the 7 Koreans that lived abroad during the occupation period & while there were introduced to the martial arts, which was starting to take hold. These 7 Koreans were responsible for opening & teaching at the 6 early kwans. It was 2 of these 7 & their 1st generation students who eventually gave the world TKD, both a Korean martial art & sport, that has become an Olympic sport & the world's most practiced martial art.

So once we get past all the fluff, stick to the basics, we can start to really grasp what happened, where & when did it occur, along with who played a part in giving this great gift to the world.

 

[Hollywood1340]

I do notice the drum role wasn't answered. This has been most entertaining.

 

[Earl Weiss]

History of TKD?

ok, some korean guys were bb's in shotokan, and wanted something to call their own, so they basically made up some history, took shotokan forms and re-arranged them, called them something new, and BOOM, TKD came to be.


anything else in addition to these facts is made up history

I like this. It should continmue:

Founder of Shotokan wanted.... had some experience in Shorin and Shorei.....and

Founder of Shorin....... had some experiece in Shaolin...

 

[puunui]

I do notice the drum role wasn't answered. This has been most entertaining.

I think a lot of people noticed. I also think it is quite rude to ask me questions, expecting an answer, I answer, ask the very same questions, and the person completely ignores it. It cuts tremendously into the poster's credibility and goes directly to my point that this discussion has been mainly one sided.

 

[puunui]

History of TKD? ok, some korean guys were bb's in shotokan, and wanted something to call their own, so they basically made up some history, took shotokan forms and re-arranged them, called them something new, and BOOM, TKD came to be. anything else in addition to these facts is made up history

That might be true if Taekwondo were a carbon copy of Shotokan, but it isn't. Also, which Shotokan are we speaking about, the Shotokan from pre 1944, or post WWII Shotokan, because the two are not the same.

 

[leadleg]

History of TKD?

ok, some korean guys were bb's in shotokan, and wanted something to call their own, so they basically made up some history, took shotokan forms and re-arranged them, called them something new, and BOOM, TKD came to be.


anything else in addition to these facts is made up history

I do some Shotokan forms,a couple are rearranged somewhat by Mu Duk Kwan pioneers and some straight up Shotokan,according to what I can compare them to on the web and from some I have seen at tournaments.
The KKW forms are quite different in their stances and the way the power is delivered, they do not look like Chinese styles either, I would have to say they are unique to KKW style. Their are two poomse in development that resemble modern TKD even more, but they are still not being released as official yet.
One should realise that KKW TKD is scientific in nature and is always evolving and being studied with modern tools to make it faster and more powerful.
This is alien to those who feel traditional ways are better or cannot be improved. I think we should not think of KKW TKD as anything but a very modern and progressive martial art.
Korean martial arts are however older than what a few BB's brought back or learned from the Japanese.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

I do some Shotokan forms,a couple are rearranged somewhat by Mu Duk Kwan pioneers and some straight up Shotokan,according to what I can compare them to on the web and from some I have seen at tournaments.
The KKW forms are quite different in their stances and the way the power is delivered, they do not look like Chinese styles either, I would have to say they are unique to KKW style. Their are two poomse in development that resemble modern TKD even more, but they are still not being released as official yet.
One should realise that KKW TKD is scientific in nature and is always evolving and being studied with modern tools to make it faster and more powerful.
This is alien to those who feel traditional ways are better or cannot be improved. I think we should not think of KKW TKD as anything but a very modern and progressive martial art.
Korean martial arts are however older than what a few BB's brought back or learned from the Japanese.

Yes I have seen some examples of the new sports Poomsae & they are definitely more TKD looking. I would also say that an argument can be made that all martial art techniques are similar & even though they may be arranged differently they will still have the feel for some that they are still similar. For me what I think helps the ITF Tuls stand apart is they way they move & how they formed the techniques.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

I do notice the drum role wasn't answered. This has been most entertaining.

Yes I did see this & didn't think there was a set time frame that a response was required by.
Maybe I just like a longer drum roll.

 

[leadleg]

Yes I have seen some examples of the new sports Poomsae & they are definitely more TKD looking. I would also say that an argument can be made that all martial art techniques are similar & even though they may be arranged differently they will still have the feel for some that they are still similar. For me what I think helps the ITF Tuls stand apart is they way they move & how they formed the techniques.

If you see the ITF forms done by experts I'd say they are quite artistic as well as technical, but to me very Japanese.
The KKW forms are also very artistic and very powerful,when done by the experts.The power being generated is smooth from relaxed to explosion.
Either one can be so messed up by most practicioners as to give bad impressions.
KKW can look weak and inefective,ITF can look like bouncing and spitting.
IMHO,which with a $1.00 won't get you a pack of juicy fruit.