5 reasons TaeKwonDo as a system (not individual techniques) breaks down in a Muay Thai ring

[Archtkd]

[


No, you're not. It's perfectly correct to state "Do you know what the word X entails", if the context in which the word is used is already understood.

Actually words don't entail.

 

[Archtkd]

And btw, the WTF drove Taekwondo footwork and other things to a higher level in TKD competition. It is not without its benefits. But I don't believe in it in the long run under the conditions mentioned. Just my opinion.

Exactly how did the World Taekwondo Federation drive footwork in Taekwondo? Please provide us with one, just one documented example of that. Also in another line you stated there is a "universal" way that taekwondo footwork was taught. Elaborate on that. Does universal mean your dojang, little town, village? Where can the curriculum for this "universal" way of teaching taekwondo footwork be found and who developed it? Please be precise with concrete examples.

 

[MA_Student]

ANyway, sorry ,if I offended anyone. I am very depressed. and a total loser (that one you got right). Bye

Dude no one has ever called you that on here and if you have depression you need to get yourself help for that. No one is offended but you have been rude and condenseding to a number of people here so you know they're going to say stuff back that's what people do. You're not a loser man just get the help you need from the doctors.

Peace

 

[Dirty Dog]

And btw, the WTF drove Taekwondo footwork and other things to a higher level in TKD competition. It is not without its benefits. But I don't believe in it in the long run under the conditions mentioned. Just my opinion.

Which TKD footwork are you talking about? You do understand that there are at least a couple dozen different styles of TKD, right? And that all of them have their own idea of how things ought to be done (they're all wrong, of course, except for the style I teach... ;p)? And the only thing you accomplish by pretending there is some Universal True TKD Rule is to make yourself look foolish?

 

[RTKDCMB]

The discussion was using a TKD system - footwork, kicks, punches, knees, elbows, throws, against A Muay Thai system.

The discussion was using ONLY the TKD system YOU are familiar with against a Muay Thai system

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There is even a thai kick that almost hits with the inside ankle.

That one I'd need to learn from someone. It sounds like a good one to injure yourself with if you don't know what you're doing.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Using the system I am familiar with:

1) We spar in a back stance with our feet planted firmly but with the legs bent for agility and balance. there's no bouncing around.

2) Our kicks are designed for power and finishing opponents quickly and most are fast enough to not be easily grabbed.

3) We have a wide range of hand techniques, both defensive and offensive and they too are designed for maximum power and effectiveness.

4) We don't use the clinch offensively but have techniques to deal with someone trying to grab in a similar fashion. Also for the record the TKD used at the Olympics has clinches.

5) With the exception of step sparring all of our sparring is continuous.

Our style is pretty much the opposite of what you are describing. Would it break down in a Muay Thai ring according to you?

 

[RTKDCMB]

I'm going to start a thread...why Judo falls down in fencing competitions.

Aren't you supposed to fall down in Judo sometimes?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

5) With the exception of step sparring all of our sparring is continuous.

Sorry I had to pick at this one RTKDCMB. When I read it, my brain (pre-coffee) simply read it as, "Except for the non-continuous stuff, all our sparring is continuous." I had to re-read it to get your point.

 

[Axiom]

Which TKD footwork are you talking about? You do understand that there are at least a couple dozen different styles of TKD, ri

Kukkiwon Taekwondo

Using the system I am familiar with:

1) We spar in a back stance with our feet planted firmly but with the legs bent for agility and balance. there's no bouncing around.

2) Our kicks are designed for power and finishing opponents quickly and most are fast enough to not be easily grabbed.

3) We have a wide range of hand techniques, both defensive and offensive and they too are designed for maximum power and effectiveness.

4) We don't use the clinch offensively but have techniques to deal with someone trying to grab in a similar fashion. Also for the record the TKD used at the Olympics has clinches.

5) With the exception of step sparring all of our sparring is continuous.

Our style is pretty much the opposite of what you are describing. Would it break down in a Muay Thai ring according to you?

Is your style an ITF-off shoot? Most ITF guys do in fact bounce around. There's been so much interbreeding of techniques as well that an ITF competitor looks very much like a WTF one nowdays.... As for your question, if what you're saying is that you're doing solid kickboxing sparring with hard contact, then I in fact don't think it will break down.

 

[Axiom]

Using the system I am familiar with:

1) We spar in a back stance with our feet planted firmly but with the legs bent for agility and balance. there's no bouncing around.

2) Our kicks are designed for power and finishing opponents quickly and most are fast enough to not be easily grabbed.

A Kukkiwon competitor is twice as fast in their footwork and will run circles around you. But sure, if you got knockout power, go for it. Have you ever sparred a Thai guy?

 

[Tez3]

Aren't you supposed to fall down in Judo sometimes?

I thought I'd be punny.

 

[Axiom]

The discussion was using ONLY the TKD system YOU are familiar with against a Muay Thai system

I'm ITF. Fighters of both of the two main federations (WTF/ITF) will be on the behinds if they do jumping back kicks, you know, the types of techniques that actually signify taekwondo from other arts. If you just throw old school roundhouse kicks, you might as well go in there as a KickBoxer.

 

[Tez3]

Is your style an ITF-off shoot? Most ITF guys do in fact bounce around.

A Kukkiwon competitor is twice as fast in their footwork

A Kukkiwon competitor is twice as fast in their footwork and will run circles around you

Which competitor is this, do you have their name?


Why do you generalise so much? You state things as if what a few may do is done by all. I don't know that much about TKD beyond the basics but I do read what people who have been doing it for years say, that way I actually learn.

 

[Axiom]

Which competitor is this, do you have their name?


Why do you generalise so much? You state things as if what a few may do is done by all. I don't know that much about TKD beyond the basics but I do read what people who have been doing it for years say, that way I actually learn.

Because I have done both styles of TKD..Olympic style is speedy and drills you like a boxer, but for kicking. The ITF is more traditional, and it shows in the resulting footwork. There is less of a science to the ITF sparring curriculum. In fact, my school has no science to sparring at all. They just put on gloves and say spar. This is an unusually poor structure, perhaps, but in no way is the ITF comparable.

 

[Axiom]

The WTF guys are like the equivalence of WKF in Karate, and the ITF equivalent to Japan Karate Association.

Compare a JKA guy with a WKF, and you have good idea on how much faster WKF guys really are. Their training is totally different.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Kukkiwon Taekwondo

And what, exactly, is your training and experience with kukki TKD?

Is your style an ITF-off shoot?

No. I teach Moo Duk Kwan TKD, which has no connection with the ITF.

 

[Tez3]

Because I have done both styles of TKD..Olympic style is speedy and drills you like a boxer, but for kicking. The ITF is more traditional, and it shows in the resulting footwork. There is less of a science to the ITF sparring curriculum. In fact, my school has no science to sparring at all. They just put on gloves and say spar. This is an unusually poor structure, perhaps, but in no way is the ITF comparable.

What if it's specific instructors or specific schools rather than the whole organisation which is after all world wide? How do you know that the places you trained at are absolutes for their style? Why do you stay at a place you say has poor structure and no 'science' ( whatever that means) in sparring?

I've seen training at an ITF place, they did all the things normally seen in TKD, patterns, one and three step etc, the only different was they had a squad of people who also did Olympic style sparring because they liked competing, not all the students did and frankly the classes looked exactly like every other TKD class I'd seen. I'm sure there were differences that a TKD person could point out between organisations as I could with a karate class but the Olympic sparring was a separate class. The sparring they did was what I'd call 'normal' sparring done with hands and feet. If this isn't a normal thing I'm sure an experienced TKD instructor or two will tell me but the info we get from you I find unsatisfactory.

 

[Tez3]

I've also watched WTF classes, they do them up here in the Infantry Training School with the Gurkha recruits, probably one of the most intense and scary classes I've seen. We had one of their instructors come and do a session with our MMA students.
Gurkha Taekwondo – Gurkha Taekwondo Club

 

[Axiom]

What if it's specific instructors or specific schools rather than the whole organisation which is after all world wide? How do you know that the places you trained at are absolutes for their style? Why do you stay at a place you say has poor structure and no 'science' ( whatever that means) in sparring?

I've seen training at an ITF place, they did all the things normally seen in TKD, patterns, one and three step etc, the only different was they had a squad of people who also did Olympic style sparring because they liked competing, not all the students did and frankly the classes looked exactly like every other TKD class I'd seen. I'm sure there were differences that a TKD person could point out between organisations as I could with a karate class but the Olympic sparring was a separate class. The sparring they did was what I'd call 'normal' sparring done with hands and feet. If this isn't a normal thing I'm sure an experienced TKD instructor or two will tell me but the info we get from you I find unsatisfactory.

Because the curriculums are roughly the same no matter if you do KKW/WTF style in Iran or Norway. The styles are codified