5 reasons TaeKwonDo as a system (not individual techniques) breaks down in a Muay Thai ring

[Axiom]

On a side note, I consider footwork as learned for WTF rules sparring to be as important, if not more so, than kicking techniques. It may not be best suited for a MT ring, but it's not supposed to be, either.


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I agree (again!) although you have to agree that Thairules don't exactly discriminate a TaeKwondo stylist, since more tools are given, not less, unlike in the TKD sparring. Well except perhaps the ring...

 

[Axiom]

So TKD don't do that forward knee kick thing. Rather than the Thai swinging kick?

They sure do, but they don't kick with the shin, which both Kyokushin and Muay Thai guys do. Kyokushin does teach the instep and ball of the foot as alternatives, though.

The Thai swing is of course not found in TaeKwondo. The TKD turning kick has the benefit of not having your back turned if the kicks fails. But Thais don't seem to care about that.

You see that in the UFC a lot, when their Thai roundhouse kicks miss.

 

[MA_Student]

They sure do, but they don't kick with the shin, which both Kyokushin and Muay Thai guys do. Kyokushin does teach the instep and ball of the foot as alternatives, though.

The Thai swing is of course not found in TaeKwondo. The TKD turning kick has the benefit of not having your back turned if the kicks fails. But Thais don't seem to care about that.

You see that in the UFC a lot, when their Thai roundhouse kicks miss.

You ever do kyokushin?

 

[Axiom]

You are funny! You say something as if it's a fact then provide no evidence, you've done that a lot of times. In regard to the karate at Lumpinee ( not TKD you should note) you again say something but don't tell us what you are meaning. You have to understand we can't get into your head and fish out what precisely you are meaning. You then say 'oh there's videos' well post up what you are talking about, I know nothing about TKD v Muay Thai at the Lumpinee. If there is something don't allude to it prove it. If you say it's karate then tell us times, dates and videos. You seem to think being vague is a virtue, you tell us 'lots of people know this', 'many people do that', 'it's well know that...' yet that's all it is.



Arrogance.

Oh, please. You wrote TKD as an example. I will forgive you if you simply forgot that there were Japanese Karatekas in traditional gis kicking butt in that very stadium. It just struck me as a whoopsie on your part to think that the Thais would be insulted by it when we have actual history showing something else.

 

[drop bear]

They sure do, but they don't kick with the shin, which both Kyokushin and Muay Thai guys do. Kyokushin does teach the instep and ball of the foot as alternatives, though.

The Thai swing is of course not found in TaeKwondo. The TKD turning kick has the benefit of not having your back turned if the kicks fails. But Thais don't seem to care about that.

You see that in the UFC a lot, when their Thai roundhouse kicks miss.

Yeah. I dont think coverting to the shin is that big a step though.

 

[Tez3]

You see that in the UFC a lot, when their Thai roundhouse kicks miss.

I suppose you understand that it's MMA and the UFC is a business?

You do serve a delightful smorgasbord of nonsense.

Sooooo how many styles have you trained in, what's your Muay Thai fight record? How many fights have you had, how many students do you instruct or are you in fact a casserole of ridiculousness?

 

[Axiom]

So TKD don't do that forward knee kick thing. Rather than the Thai swinging kick?

I just answered that they do (one variation of it, the other is a male dog pinking chambering), if I understand what you mean by forward knee correctly. I'm not sure what your point is. The thai kick is very different from the TaeKwondo kick. The Kyokushin one has close ties to the thaikick . It's kind of a hybrid between a TaeKwondo and Muay Thai kick. My point was however that once the shin is involved, I don't think it's comparable to a TKD stylist.

Anyway, all three are perfectly fine kicking motions.

 

[Tez3]

Oh, please. You wrote TKD as an example. I will forgive you if you simply forgot that there were Japanese Karatekas in traditional gis kicking butt in that very stadium. It just struck me as a whoopsie on your part to think that the Thais would be insulted by it when we have actual history showing something else.

Sweetie, I've forgotten nothing, I asked you to show us what you were talking about, you are presenting a very muddled story of Mas Oyama in Thailand fighting in Muay Thai. I asked you what year and to show us what you mean.

How do you know what Thais are insulted by? My club is sponsored by Fairtex, we send fighters to train with theirs ( not the tourist place) our instructor is in Thailand a couple of times a year, he's done this for 20 years or more trust me he knows better than you.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Because of how TKD is universally trained. I also pointed out how some of those points were possible to be modified (and would be in the event of preperation ahead of a challenge match) but that it wouldn't change the outcome IMO.

The fundamental flaw in my opinion is in the footwork. But I frankly don't think TKD kicking makes much sense without it, thus my statement that it is "incompatible" with a thairuleset against a thaifighter.

Your original post stated that it was a problem with the system, and cited the rules as part of the system. Now you state it is universally ("in every instance or place; without exception") trained that way. That's hyperbolic, at least, and unlikely to be true.

 

[Axiom]

Sweetie, I've forgotten nothing, I asked you to show us what you were talking about,.

I was referring to the challenge match in 1964.

 

[Axiom]

Your original post stated that it was a problem with the system, and cited the rules as part of the system. Now you state it is universally ("in every instance or place; without exception") trained that way. That's hyperbolic, at least, and unlikely to be true.

Yeah, I don't know why I used that word. I don't agree with myself (how about that?).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Kyokushin sparring tactics is about as foreign to TKD as it can get. You couldn't have picked a better one

TKDoins aren't taught to kick with the shin, for starters. That's about as fundamental difference in kicking as it can get without doing capoera!

The difference between kicking with the shin and the instep is not all that fundamental. I do both, because they both work from the same kick.

 

[Tez3]

Mas Oyamas Kyokushin-Kais

This is where you said Mas Oyama. Btw we do know he founded Kyokushin karate.

 

[MA_Student]

Yeah, I don't know why I used that word. I don't agree with myself (how about that?).

No one else does either

 

[Axiom]

The difference between kicking with the shin and the instep is not all that fundamental. I do both, because they both work from the same kick.

It's a massive difference. You can't say "look at those guys winning with the chin as the point of impact"- "therefore TKD kicks will probably work in that ring as well". No dude. Just no.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's a massive difference. You can't say "look at those guys winning with the chin as the point of impact"- "therefore TKD kicks will probably work in that ring as well". No dude. Just no.

The difference is slight. I made the change one day while working at the heavy bag. I'm not some martial arts genius, nor even a great kicker. It's easy to swap back and forth - probably easier for those originally taught to kick with the instep (as I was).

EDIT: And turn down the attitude. Back your claim, or accept that someone disagrees based on their own experience (which is much longer than your own).

 

[Headhunter]

My god is this guy still going...

 

[Axiom]

The difference is slight. I made the change one day while working at the heavy bag. I'm not some martial arts genius, nor even a great kicker. It's easy to swap back and forth - probably easier for those originally taught to kick with the instep (as I was).
).

Yeal well kicking a bag with the chin and a person are two different things.

 

[MA_Student]

The difference is slight. I made the change one day while working at the heavy bag. I'm not some martial arts genius, nor even a great kicker. It's easy to swap back and forth - probably easier for those originally taught to kick with the instep (as I was).

EDIT: And turn down the attitude. Back your claim, or accept that someone disagrees based on their own experience (which is much longer than your own).

Oh come on he obviously has got all the answers I mean he's been training 4 years so he obviously knows it all about martial arts now right...

 

[Tez3]

I was referring to the challenge match in 1964.

LOL, the one where they used Judo throws to win against the MT fighters?

this from an interview with an interview with Kenji Kurosaki, Osamu Noguchi. It might also explain why they don't want karateka or TKDoists in their ring. Never underestimate national pride.

"
In February 12, 1964, 3 Kyokushin fighters (Tadashi Nakamura, Kenji Kurosaki and Akio Fujihira) fought 3 Muay Thai fighters (Tan Charan, Rabi Dechashi, Huafai Lukcontai) in the Lumpinee stadium in Thailand. Actually Kurosaki was there as trainer&coach, but Oyama and Okada (the originally planned 3rd fighter) had to return to japan after the fight had been delayed several times.
The end result was kyokushin:2 vs Muaythai:1
The kyokushin fighters had won by KO (by Highkick in rnd 1 by Nakamura, and punch in rnd 2 by Fujihira) and lost one by doctor stoppage (due to a bleeding cut over Kurosakis eyebrow from a elbow in the final round).
The Thais have been doing their best to ignore that this event ever took place ever since then. Downplaying the skill of the thai fighters (despite them being top ranked at the time) and focusing on their more successful later challenges to american karate kicboxing etc -that forged their reputation as unbeatable in standup fighting.

Kurosaki, then second in command in kyokushin, later became a pioneer and basically founder of japanese kickboxing. A legendary trainer and coach. His Gym, The Mejiro Gym spawned many legendary fighters (Toshio Fujiwara being the most famous), and strongly influenced dutch kickboxing (the dutch mejiro gym was founded by his students).

Fujihira became a champion kickboxer (training under Kurosaki) under the fightname Noboru Ozawa. Nakamura founded the world seido karate organization"