5 reasons TaeKwonDo as a system (not individual techniques) breaks down in a Muay Thai ring

[RTKDCMB]

Is your style an ITF-off shoot?

Originally, but not for the last 40 years or so.

Most ITF guys do in fact bounce around.

That's their problem.

As for your question, if what you're saying is that you're doing solid kickboxing sparring with hard contact, then I in fact don't think it will break down.

Ours is a non-competition type with non-contact sparring.

A Kukkiwon competitor is twice as fast in their footwork and will run circles around you. But sure, if you got knockout power, go for it.

They can run all the rings they want, they won't be running them for long before feeling some of that knockout power.

Have you ever sparred a Thai guy?

I assume you mean one that does Muay Thai so yes there was a guy who had done it for quite a while that joined our school until after he got his black belt with us. I also got into a street fight with someone who had done some kickboxing for a few years and through out the entire fight he could not touch me.

Depends on the background of the Kickboxing coach.

I have never seen a kickboxer in person or on a video with the same turning kick method as ours. Seen one with a similar side kick but not turning kick.

 

[Axiom]

I have never seen a kickboxer in person or on a video with the same turning kick method as ours. Seen one with a similar side kick but not turning kick.

What is your turning kick exactly? You make it sound so mysterious. Is it a variation of the mawashi geri, semi circular chambering? If yes then been there, done that.

 

[Tez3]

Oh, he's sidekicked me through the mitts into a wall. His roundhouse kick was very explosive too. It's hard to label him anything but legit. Also very experienced in TKD.

You use mitts for kicks? Why not kick bags? As I don't know how big you are saying you've been kicked that hard means little. As I said though he can be a good TKD competitor and a bad MT one, it doesn't make either style better or worse than the other.

 

[Axiom]

I can only guess it's because he has no power in them because he's trained those flicky machine gun kicks that ITF folk like to use in demo...

I have to stand up for my style here. We are trained to go full power on the mitts..... No problem whatsoever. I don't know why people think we don't based on a sparring format that happens to be light contact.

 

[Axiom]

You use mitts for kicks? Why not kick bags? As I don't know how big you are saying you've been kicked that hard means little. As I said though he can be a good TKD competitor and a bad MT one, it doesn't make either style better or worse than the other.

How could he be a bad MT competitor if he uses TKD? I said that his TKD did not work in Muay Thai ring. He later learned Muay Thai and did quite okey in competition. He wasn't in the bottom class, nor at the very top.

 

[Axiom]

You use mitts for kicks? Why not kick bags?.

Actually, the proper term is kick shields. Just learned that. And I'm not of small stature or circumference. If you sidekick me into a wall you better kick it pretty darn hard.

 

[RTKDCMB]

What is your turning kick exactly?

It's a bit hard to explain fully in words but basically it is lift leg up sideways like a dog on a tree, knee and ankle same height and leg tucked fully, rotate hips with leg traveling parallel to the ground, at about 45 degrees from the target start to straighten the leg and hit with the ball of the foot.

 

[Axiom]

It's a bit hard to explain fully in words but basically it is lift leg up sideways like a dog on a tree, knee and ankle same height and leg tucked fully, rotate hips with leg traveling parallel to the ground, at about 45 degrees from the target start to straighten the leg and hit with the ball of the foot.

That's the same turning kick as the mawashi geri in Shotokan. And dolyo chagi in ITF.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Actually, the proper term is kick shields.

Kicking shields are hand held and held against the body, bags are usually suspended are are remarkable bag like.

If you sidekick me into a wall you better kick it pretty darn hard.

A few months ago I doubled over an adult black belt taller than me (I am about 6'2") holding a kicking shield with a back kick. That was fun.

 

[RTKDCMB]

That's the same turning kick as the mawashi geri in Shotokan. And dolyo chagi in ITF.

Mostly. Yet different from the kickboxing one, which was the point.

 

[Axiom]

Kicking shields are hand held and held against the body, bags are usually suspended are are remarkable bag like.


.

I never said it was a bag...

 

[Axiom]

Mostly. Yet different from the kickboxing one, which was the point.

Yes, and has it never crossed your mind why Karatekas/TKDoins who did Kickboxing never used it? If it so powerful and economical? It's not.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Yes, and has it never crossed your mind why Karatekas/TKDoins who did Kickboxing never used it? If it so powerful and economical? It's not.

Has it ever crossed your mind that Karate/TKD guys who do kickboxing might be using, I don't know, kickboxing techniques perhaps? I may not be powerful and economic when you use it but we get plenty of power and economy out of it.

 

[Axiom]

Heres an informative article on the differences between an old schools and modern TKD turning kick ITF Vs Kukkiwon Dollyo Chagi

The writer fails to mention however that the KKW guys do indeed perform this old school kick as well in some of their forms. They don't just learn the new one.

 

[Tez3]

Actually, the proper term is kick shields.

I never said it was a bag...

I said kick bags and I meant kick bags. I think you are misunderstanding a great deal here.

Yes, and has it never crossed your mind why Karatekas/TKDoins who did Kickboxing never used it? If it so powerful and economical? It's not.

Has it never crossed your mind why karateka/TKDists don't use swords? If they are so powerful and economical?

 

[Axiom]

Has it ever crossed your mind that Karate/TKD guys who do kickboxing might be using, I don't know, kickboxing techniques perhaps? I may not be powerful and economic when you use it but we get plenty of power and economy out of it.

No. Kickboxing was, amongst other tings, an outlet for Karatekas/TKdoins to use their techniques in full contact. As it happened though, they not only dropped their ball of the foot turning kick but also their punches and learned modified boxing (punches in kickboxning rules).

 

[Tez3]

No. Kickboxing was, amongst other tings, an outlet for Karatekas/TKdoins to use their techniques in full contact. As it happened though, they not only dropped their ball of the foot turning kick but also their punches and learned modified boxing (punches in kickboxning rules).

Sigh. You know we had and still have full contact karate competitions? Are you saying karateka have dropped their punches and are using boxing techniques now? if you are you are talking nonsense.

 

[Balrog]

I will outline why TaeKwondo, no matter contact level, or even rules, breaks down in a Muay Thai ring against a skilled Thaistylist. This despite the fact that all strikes in Muay Thai are also in TaeKwondo! My reasons may surprise you.

1. Footwork. TKDoins are often renowned for their speedy and light footwork. However, being light on your feet in a Thaiboxing ring also carries the disadvantage of being easier to knock OFF your feet. Thaiboxers in comparision are more flat footed but rock solid to the ground. Getting put on your butt repeatedly will wear and tear on you. And this will happen even more easily with one foot up in the air kicking..

2. The kicks. This ties in to the point above. TaeKwondo kicks are snappy and quick of the feet, but makes one liable to get pushed off balance in a rule set in which you can actually grabb and push down kicks. Stability will once again be a major question mark. This is demoralising in the long run and, the kicks you perfected in the dojang won't get you as many points (or KO'S) as you might have previously though.

Well, I'll stop after these two because they are so massively wrong, there's no need to continue.

Footwork and being easy to knock off your feet.....you're making the assumption that the TKD fighter is simply going to stand still once the MT guy starts a technique? The purpose of footwork is primarily two things: get into position to hit someone, or get out of the way when they try to hit you.

Kicks....yes, a lot of them are snappy and quick. What's your point? Get hit by one of those snappy and quick kicks and you're gonna get hurt.

Let me suggest - strongly - that you go back and learn something about TKD before you write about it. Just sayin'....

 

[Axiom]

Sigh. You know we had and still have full contact karate competitions? Are you saying karateka have dropped their punches and are using boxing techniques now? if you are you are talking nonsense.

In American Kickboxing, originally called Full Contact Karate, competitions they did.

 

[Axiom]

Well, I'll stop after these two because they are so massively wrong, there's no need to continue.

Footwork and being easy to knock off your feet.....you're making the assumption that the TKD fighter is simply going to stand still once the MT guy starts a technique?

Actually, he real liability is when the TKD guy is the one of the offensive with that footwork in freefighting rules in general (not just MT).

By the way there are instructors in here who indirectly agreed about the footwork issue. "We only care about footwork for TKD specific rules" is pretty much admitting my point.