Youth Black Belts

[yorkshirelad]

thats because it isnt possible

any school that issues 2nd, 3rd, etc to PRETEENS is doing so to make money, pure and simple in my not so humble opinion, and the parents have too much of thier self esteem wrapped up in little johnny's accomplishments to admitt the truth, that thier KID, no matter how talented is in fact a KID, not an expert on anything of consequence.

There are some adults not worthy of a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th dan either, you being one of them. I know of a few ten year old kids who could quite possible take you apart TF. At the very least you'd probably have a heart attack running once around the dojang after them.

All of your posts come off as demeaning and insulting. Daniel Sullivan has answered all argument about child bbs in a logical, respectful manner. You should take a page from his book.

Btw, for the last time, it it their not thier

 

[Twin Fist]

personal insult are a violation of the TOS boy

 

[Twin Fist]

and as flattering as it is to have a stalker, you seriously need a new hobby, i know i peed all over your sacred cow, and did it only by telling the truth, but seriously, get a new hobby boy.

 

[jks9199]

Attention all users:

If the personal attacks, sniping, and general crap fest don't stop real fast, this thread is going to be locked. I think it's pretty clear that some people hold strong opinions on the issue of youth black belts -- or a youth black belt or two in particular. Learn to live with the difference of opinion, or make use of the ignore button if you can't.

This is the last warning on this issue.

jks9199
Moderator

 

[yorkshirelad]

personal insult are a violation of the TOS boy

tes it is...so stop doing it you fool!!

 

[yorkshirelad]

and as flattering as it is to have a stalker, you seriously need a new hobby, i know i peed all over your sacred cow, and did it only by telling the truth, but seriously, get a new hobby boy.

You seem to pee on everyone's parade. You're the worse kind of playa hater and the mods seem to just endlessly give you a pass. It is almost like not punishing the kid with tourettes. Just letting him run his mouth because he can't help himself. The whole thing is bizarre. Even the name 'Twin Fist' is kind of a given. Like we have to be told that you have two fists.

Then you thank the mods for a warning about bad behaviour that is MOSTLY directed at your ****.

TKD Father, don't pay too much attention to this guy. He does it with everyone. He does it online because, it's obvious that he has NO chance in a fae to face encounter.

I asked a guy that he badmouthed on here what he was like in person and if he had ever confronted him in person. The guy just laughed. NUF SED.

 

[jks9199]

Thread locked pending review.

 

[Sukerkin]

As yet again it seems that there are those who cannot act their age in an On-line environment, this thread is being locked, hopefully temporarily, whilst the Moderation Team decides how to untangle the latest juvenile mess.

Mark A. Beardmore
MT Moderator

EDIT: Ah, a two barrel fusillade it seems

 

[MJS]

ADMIN NOTE:

ATTN ALL USERS:

The thread is being re-opened on a trial basis, meaning that it is being watched, and will be relocked if the rules can't be followed. A few things:

1) The rules here apply to all members, not just a select few, as its been hinted at. It is NOT a policy of this forum, to discuss openly, any mod. action that is taken on a member, with other members of the forum. More than one person in this thread has accused the staff here of playing favorites. I can assure you that there have been a number of posts reported in this thread, and a number of people have been dealt with.

2) With the exception of perhaps a few new members, I'm more than sure everyone here is familiar with the forum rules here. They were agreed upon by everyone upon joining the forum. If you have failed to read them, that is your fault, not mine. I suggest everyone take the time to read them again.

3) Use the ignore feature if you do not wish to read a certain members posts. But dont put them on ignore, and then follow them around, stalking them, viewing their replies, reporting every post you can find on them. If that is done, then technically the person doing that is no better, and your actions will be deemed as harassing and abuse of the RTM system. All reported posts are reviewed by the forum mods. Some of them will be deemed no action. Why? Because they were not in violation of the forum rules.

4) Posting on a forum requires a thick skin. Just because you may not agree with the thoughts of someone else, does not make it ok to start reporting every post of the member that you disagree with. We're not robots here. I may like something someone else does not. Get over it and learn to deal with it.

5) If you can't follow the rules, then perhaps posting is not for you. Again, they are in place for everyone, not a select few.

6) Lets return to the topic at hand, which is youth black belts. There have been a number of mod. warnings posted in this thread. They were not posted for the sake of posting them, they were posted because a number of people could not post without taking a personal shot at someone else. Consider this, the final warning! Further disregard for the forum rules, will result in the thread being locked, and possible suspension/removal of your account!

Mike Slosek
MT Asst. Admin

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

A Black Belt (1st Dan/Poom/etc) to me means that the student has learned the basics of that art and is able to teach what they know to others. As one progresses from 1st Dan/Poom on up the Dan ranks, it means that they have begun to learn even more about the Art, and have begun to understand the meaning behind all they have learned up to that point.

I find it hard to believe, in most cases, that a 9,10 or 11 year old person is able to understand the meanings behind what they are learning and that they can pass on that meaning to another student.

Now, that said, I often wonder how many of the "Adult" Black Belts have the ability or knowledge...

I do not think that youngsters should wear the belt, but I also respect those schools that decide to issue them. I only hope that they don't issue them for money reasons.

Best post on this thread in my opinion!

Daniel

 

[terryl965]

A Black Belt (1st Dan/Poom/etc) to me means that the student has learned the basics of that art and is able to teach what they know to others. As one progresses from 1st Dan/Poom on up the Dan ranks, it means that they have begun to learn even more about the Art, and have begun to understand the meaning behind all they have learned up to that point.

I find it hard to believe, in most cases, that a 9,10 or 11 year old person is able to understand the meanings behind what they are learning and that they can pass on that meaning to another student.

Now, that said, I often wonder how many of the "Adult" Black Belts have the ability or knowledge...

I do not think that youngsters should wear the belt, but I also respect those schools that decide to issue them. I only hope that they don't issue them for money reasons.

Mr. Bell I would like to say first great post,I am one of those instructor that believe in the Poom/ Jr. BB belt. Having three sons that have grown up inside a dojaang six days a week since the age of two and train 2-4 hours a day belive after 9-10 years that a jr. bb is appribiate, with that being said at the age of 16 they re-test for a dan rank and I know I do not need to test them but I do anyway because certain material is not approbiate for childern to learn but at the sametime they have put the time in for that rank

In the end we only have ourself to look in the mirror to remind us what a BB truely is and when someone is ready mentally as well as physically.

 

[miguksaram]

In the end we only have ourself to look in the mirror to remind us what a BB truely is and when someone is ready mentally as well as physically.

Finally a voice of reason!! This bodes well for an instructor view point and from a student view point. Regardless of who is wearing a BB next to you or what their age is, ultimately you are responsible for your own training and value of that piece of cloth around your waist.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I am one of those instructor that believe in the Poom/ Jr. BB belt. Having three sons that have grown up inside a dojaang six days a week since the age of two and train 2-4 hours a day belive after 9-10 years that a jr. bb is appribiate, with that being said at the age of 16 they re-test for a dan rank and I know I do not need to test them but I do anyway because certain material is not approbiate for childern to learn but at the sametime they have put the time in for that rank.

I firmly agree that the poom system or its equivalent in other orgs/schools is a good idea. I am of the opininion that poom students should wear a poom belt, but ultimately,that is a decision of the school owner. Different schools handle it differently, and I respect their decision, even if I do not agree.

I also think that it is very laudible of you to retest the student at sixteen. This is not a Kukkiwon requirement, but I think that it is a good idea. Aside from the obvious benefit of putting the student through the adult test, it also allows the student an opportunity to really show how far they have come since their last testing, whatever poom rank it may have been.

Daniel

 

[ATC]

I firmly agree that the poom system or its equivalent in other orgs/schools is a good idea. I am of the opininion that poom students should wear a poom belt, but ultimately,that is a decision of the school owner. Different schools handle it differently, and I respect their decision, even if I do not agree.

I also think that it is very laudible of you to retest the student at sixteen. This is not a Kukkiwon requirement, but I think that it is a good idea. Aside from the obvious benefit of putting the student through the adult test, it also allows the student an opportunity to really show how far they have come since their last testing, whatever poom rank it may have been.

Daniel

What is this thread for anyways then? All kids under 16 are pooms and not dans so what are we all discussing as what is stated above is pretty much what is being done. Even my son and daughter are pooms and not dans. I thought pooms were Jr. Black Belts.

 

[terryl965]

I firmly agree that the poom system or its equivalent in other orgs/schools is a good idea. I am of the opininion that poom students should wear a poom belt, but ultimately,that is a decision of the school owner. Different schools handle it differently, and I respect their decision, even if I do not agree.

I also think that it is very laudible of you to retest the student at sixteen. This is not a Kukkiwon requirement, but I think that it is a good idea. Aside from the obvious benefit of putting the student through the adult test, it also allows the student an opportunity to really show how far they have come since their last testing, whatever poom rank it may have been.

Daniel

Daniel thank you first off and just a side note you are right no test required and I have had some students leave and go to other school to get there Dan rank. That is fine in the end they will understand that a second test should be required and additional material is needed to be that Dan rank. I have also had some of them same student come back to re-test a year later and said I finally get what you was saying about a test between Poom and Dan rank those are some of the happines moments as an instructor.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

What is this thread for anyways then?

The one in which it is posted.

All kids under 16 are pooms and not dans so what are we all discussing as what is stated above is pretty much what is being done. Even my son and daughter are pooms and not dans. I thought pooms were Jr. Black Belts.

A poom is a junior rank, but it is not a dan grade. Like dan-bo, it is a grade between keup grade and dan grade. Poom rank students are not yudanja.

There is a poom belt which is half black and half red, as well as a poom dobok with a black/red collar. Being a poom does not make one a BB automatically. It is at the discretion of the school owner. If that school puts half red/half black belts onto their first poom students, then those students are not black belts.

On the other hand, if another school puts a black belt with gold stitched letters and a stripe onto a first poom student, then in that school, the student is considered a black belt.

TKDFather's son wears a black belt with a single stripe (I presume, based on the graphic in his sig.). Most Kukkiwon schools follow suit. In schools that do that, the student is a black belt.

But the belt is technically not the rank.

Daniel

 

[TKD_Father]

TKDFather's son wears a black belt with a single stripe (I presume, based on the graphic in his sig.). Most Kukkiwon schools follow suit. In schools that do that, the student is a black belt.

But the belt is technically not the rank.

Correct, his belt has a single stripe with his name embroidered on one side (in English) and the school/federation is on the other (in Hangul).

His Kukkiwon paperwork has been submitted. Once approved, as I understand it, he will be considered a 1st Poom in the eyes of the Kukkiwon until he reaches the age of 14 when his Poom rank will become his Dan rank. Within the walls of his school he is considered a 1st Dan, which is the same belt he competes as.

 

[The Last Legionary]

Any school can issue any rank they want to any one at any time. You might have to complete a 36 hour hell trial or just wait until the check clears. At the end of the day, outside your school, that rank means ziltch. Nada. Nutin Huny! Some schools are like Harvard, their ranks carry weight. Others are like your local community college, and carry a lot less. I will say this, and 12 yr old who knows the material better than some 12 years in adult, well, that adult needs to step up...and maybe get checked for cooties.

That is all.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Correct, his belt has a single stripe with his name embroidered on one side (in English) and the school/federation is on the other (in Hangul).

His Kukkiwon paperwork has been submitted. Once approved, as I understand it, he will be considered a 1st Poom in the eyes of the Kukkiwon until he reaches the age of 14 when his Poom rank will become his Dan rank. Within the walls of his school he is considered a 1st Dan, which is the same belt he competes as.

You have hit the nail on the head! Though the age of conversion is fifteen, not fourteen (see article 8 of the Kukkiwon regs: http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/examination/examination08.jsp?div=01). Essentially, anyone under fifteen can get to poom ranks. Also, fourth poom does not convert until the student is eighteen.

On a side note, belt colors are, to a great degree, arbitrary. Black is generally dan grade and white is generally ungraded. But beyond that, all bets are off.

If I say that I am a red belt, in TKD schools, depending on the GM, I could be almost a black or just under yellow. On the other hand, if I say that I am first keup, there is no confusion.

Regardless of what color belt a child is wearing, to get to poom grade is an accomplishment for the student to be proud of. If the student stays with it, higher poom grades are likewise a great accomplishment for the student and the future dan grades will be that much sweeter.

One last thing: let us not forget that the whole reason for the poom grade is to provide a student who starts very young a means of continuing past first keup while keeping them in a safe setting. It is mainly to prevent an eighteen year old first dan from being paired up in full contact sparring with a ten year old, who's body is not yet grown and developed, regardless of relative skill.

It is not to demean the student or that student's hard work. And yes, young kids are capable of hard work.

Daniel

 

[Twin Fist]

let's get a few things right here.

CHILDREN getting Dan ranks is BAD for EVERYONE

here is why:

it builds false confidance in the child which can get them killed

It makes the art as a WHOLE a joke (yeah, TKD, where even 3 yr olds can be blackbelts)

it makes every adult that actually EARNED thier Dan rank the equal of 7 year old that still wets the bed but who's check cleared and POOF, he gets a black belt

last but not least, it is FRAUD. The parents pay and pay and pay and they THINK they and their kid is getting real training, but they are NOT

I DONT CARE how good your "Grandmaster" is, if the student is 3 he/she is NOT "learning karate".

REAL martial artists have a duty to stamp out this garbage or at least call it out. This "live and let live" crap is just that, CRAP

Silence is just passive endorsement.

30 years ago, when you heard "he's a black belt" you backed up....now, you tell someone you are a blackbelt, they say "so what, so's my 4 year old"