Women’s versus men’s self-defense?

[Mallic]

Last time we interacted, you said you weren’t training martial arts yet, and I gave you a bunch of resources to study. Have you invested time into either?

I've mostly been focusing on conditioning and getting my body to a suitable physical state, there's a certain discipline in reorganizing your eating habits to enable your body to be better suited for combat.
No point in learning martial arts if your body can't utilize techniques properly right?

 

[hoshin1600]

I dont think the conversation is moot. Women can benefit greatly from martial arts, pepper spray and firearms. I do think it's a matter of placement. Right time, right circumstances and the right application. Which can be very different than how and when men would apply it.

 

[Mallic]

I dont think the conversation is moot. Women can benefit greatly from martial arts, pepper spray and firearms. I do think it's a matter of placement. Right time, right circumstances and the right application. Which can be very different than how and when men would apply it.

Still the whole thing while being in an abusive relationship is like asking..."how do I stop someone from beating my *** when I'm bound, gagged and chained up?"
Like again I'm not victim blaming but something went wrong LONG before we got to this point.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I've mostly been focusing on conditioning and getting my body to a suitable physical state, there's a certain discipline in reorganizing your eating habits to enable your body to be better suited for combat.
No point in learning martial arts if your body can't utilize techniques properly right?

Both can work hand in hand and support each other. Start training MA.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Both can work hand in hand and support each other. Start training MA.

I think we’re a little past vague generalities on the this thread.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

I've mostly been focusing on conditioning and getting my body to a suitable physical state, there's a certain discipline in reorganizing your eating habits to enable your body to be better suited for combat.
No point in learning martial arts if your body can't utilize techniques properly right?

If you are overweight to the point you can’t control your weight, than training might be more challenging than usual.

 

[HighKick]

Yeah, I wouldn’t expect anything to be done once a drug is in play, at least not for the average person.

Could you elaborate on the speed advantage? Did you observe any particular trucks carrying weapons?

Research women's anatomy and speed dynamics. It is hard to navigate because strength gets added into the equation too often, but generally women are faster in most aspects when things are studied apples to apples.
And this is an evolving science as larger and larger groups of women and men continue to get closer anatomically.
But don't confuse this with things like a flat out sprint where a man is usually going to win.
There is still a pretty large gap in unfettered time to aggression between sexes, but even that appears to be closing.
The hardest thing to help women wrap their head around is if they have to defend, it must be very, very quick, violent and lasting. Then and only then is their separation. And no, I do not sell them on this being a 100% solution. SD is hard to teach because it is hard to create the right environment and train as such high risks.

I have observed this in class and in specific SD training sessions and my own studies to support some of my training, including life experiences as a LEO.

I am in the U.S. so when I teach carrying a weapon, it is either a practical, carried everywhere, every day weapon (like car keys or similar) or something of high velocity.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Research women's anatomy and speed dynamics. It is hard to navigate because strength gets added into the equation too often, but generally women are faster in most aspects when things are studied apples to apples.
And this is an evolving science as larger and larger groups of women and men continue to get closer anatomically.
But don't confuse this with things like a flat out sprint where a man is usually going to win.
There is still a pretty large gap in unfettered time to aggression between sexes, but even that appears to be closing.
The hardest thing to help women wrap their head around is if they have to defend, it must be very, very quick, violent and lasting. Then and only then is their separation. And no, I do not sell them on this being a 100% solution. SD is hard to teach because it is hard to create the right environment and train as such high risks.

I have observed this in class and in specific SD training sessions and my own studies to support some of my training, including life experiences as a LEO.

I am in the U.S. so when I teach carrying a weapon, it is either a practical, carried everywhere, every day weapon (like car keys or similar) or something of high velocity.

I rarely see a woman in SD classes who is confident in their aggression.

So you’re referring to their ability to preform individual movements quickly?

 

[HighKick]

I rarely see a woman in SD classes who is confident in their aggression.

So you’re referring to their ability to preform individual movements quickly?

Yes. When there is escalation, women (anyone) has to recognize it quicker and react quicker. SA is usually more important that the actual SD itself.

We work a Lot on only a few movements. Always establish a real world 'goto' movement. This will be different based on age and ability. There is no such thing as an effective universal SD class. Very, very specific training.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Yes. When there is escalation, women (anyone) has to recognize it quicker and react quicker. SA is usually more important that the actual SD itself.

We work a Lot on only a few movements. Always establish a real world 'goto' movement. This will be different based on age and ability. There is no such thing as an effective universal SD class. Very, very specific training.

Ever seen anyone hook a knife sheathe into their purse?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Projecting confidence, as in people don’t target you as an easy mark.

"Watchful eyes" worked better for me. In general, and even now. I don't have nearly as much confidence as some people may think I have. For me I struggle just like everyone else.

My perspective when it comes to fighting is that I don't have to win. I just have to make it difficult and miserable for my attacker to win. I think people see this more than anything else. When I was in Baltimore one of the thugs where I worked tried to recruit people to help him beat me up or to catch me after work. The fact that he did that tells me that he didn't think it would be easy. The fact that the guy he tried to recruit didn't want to get into it. Tells me he had more sense, or he didn't want to get into it either.

As strong as lions are, they still hunt the weak. No one wants a hard fight.

 

[Mallic]

"Watchful eyes" worked better for me. In general, and even now. I don't have nearly as much confidence as some people may think I have. For me I struggle just like everyone else.

My perspective when it comes to fighting is that I don't have to win. I just have to make it difficult and miserable for my attacker to win. I think people see this more than anything else. When I was in Baltimore one of the thugs where I worked tried to recruit people to help him beat me up or to catch me after work. The fact that he did that tells me that he didn't think it would be easy. The fact that the guy he tried to recruit didn't want to get into it. Tells me he had more sense, or he didn't want to get into it either.

As strong as lions are, they still hunt the weak. No one wants a hard fight.

Fake it till ya make it baby. And yeah sometimes make it not worth the trouble is a victory in itself. At least then no matter what you can say you went down swinging.

But Christ, the fact that some street punk thought it was worth trying to jump you tells me I'd respect you if we ever met irl.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Unless I missed it, there was no mention of Kata as a self defense exercise. I found that odd but not surprising.

When you break kata into its pieces then it becomes drills. When I teach self-defense, the fighting portions, then I take pieces of the form to be drilled and used for self defense.. Using kat would be not breaking the pieces of kata to drill.

Kata is long and not all of it is needed in a fight. Because of that people take pieces of it and drill that. I'm currently training someone how to apply Jow Ga techniques. I start from the beginning of the form, and we drill and spar with those techniques from the form until it's mastered. If he stays with it long enough, then he will know the form which can then be used to help train his self-defense.

When I teach self-defense classes, I usually train things that are easy to pick up. If a person wasn't going to train Jow Ga daily then what can be taught that will allow them to be able to use it after a short period of training.

In Jow Ga our forms are made of fighting combinations, so it makes sense for me to do things this way.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Fake it till ya make it baby. And yeah sometimes make it not worth the trouble is a victory in itself. At least then no matter what you can say you went down swinging.

But Christ, the fact that some street punk thought it was worth trying to jump you tells me I'd respect you if we ever met irl.

To this day I don't understand the value he saw in attacking the director of a youth development center. It wasn't like I was worth any street cred or bragging rights.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Nope it's actually very common. It's also the number two go to threat abusive men use. "if you don't comply I will hurt your kids".
it is a very effective. Number one threat would be comply or I will hurt YOU. But threats to your kids is actually more effective and they know this.
However when your in a relationship with your abuser they will use all kinds of evil to punish you for resistance. Abusive relationships often end in murder. Not because he wanted her dead but rather because there was an on going escalation of punishment that was brought to such a level that murder was inevitable.

(Example; my aunt was shot in the face with a shotgun, in her living room by her abusive husband of 15 years.)

Abusive relationships often use leverage to keep people from fighting back. It starts small and the abuser always makes the victim feel like they have something to lose. I don't think it would last as long if it weren't for that feeling of "something to lose."

That "Something to lose" ends up being more important than the beatings. The "Something to lose" is so strong that people never think that "the something to lose" should be to lose the abuse. But all of that starts as a mental war.

1. appear innocent to the victim's friends
2. It's you not me.
3. Isolate the victim from friends and family
4. Start leveraging the "Something to lose."
5. Go all in on the abuse.

People think that it's about the physical abuse but by the time that happens, the mental abuse has been going on for far longer and at a more consistent rate.

I have had friends and family in that situation and it's one of thing I truly hate to see. It's a very difficult situation.

 

[Mallic]

Abusive relationships often use leverage to keep people from fighting back. It starts small and the abuser always makes the victim feel like they have something to lose. I don't think it would last as long if it weren't for that feeling of "something to lose."

That "Something to lose" ends up being more important than the beatings. The "Something to lose" is so strong that people never think that "the something to lose" should be to lose the abuse. But all of that starts as a mental war.

1. appear innocent to the victim's friends
2. It's you not me.
3. Isolate the victim from friends and family
4. Start leveraging the "Something to lose."
5. Go all in on the abuse.

People think that it's about the physical abuse but by the time that happens, the mental abuse has been going on for far longer and at a more consistent rate.

I have had friends and family in that situation and it's one of thing I truly hate to see. It's a very difficult situation.

Good lord that's gaslighting 101.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Good lord that's gaslighting 101.

I think gaslighting 101 is too kind. The manipulation can be so strong that the victim turns on friends, family, and law enforcement or anyone who is trying to save them in that moment. I have no kind words for people who manipulate others like that.

 

[Mallic]

I think gaslighting 101 is too kind. The manipulation can be so strong that the victim turns on friends, family, and law enforcement or anyone who is trying to save them in that moment. I have no kind words for people who manipulate others like that.

Yeah normally I'm all for running the ones with someone, but someone like that man or woman deserves to get jumped.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think a discussion on how a man's and woman's employment of such technique will/should differ against a male attacker will be more objective,

On this I think everyone has the same challenge and the same fight. There will be a mental fight before the physical fight. The first fight is to change the mental perspective of the unseen attacker. The goal should be. How do I position myself not to be a target. Depending on who you are and the situation yo may have to fight a battle or two to win a war. Sometimes walking away will be the bad decision that keeps a person a target. That's just the reality. But recognizing when this is the answer is the most important.

 

[TheTraveleress]

As a woman, taught and trained by a woman, in a coed martial art... I think the issue of being unpreparred for the violence is the same for both sexes. While men are better prepared to respond to aggression with aggression, the brutality of an unexpected attack is a disadvantage for both sexes.

Laymen Self-Defense Classes
Any self-defense class is going to be limited by time, practice, and hesitancy of participants--both trainers who don't want to be sued, and learners who do not want to hurt or be hurt. I have participated in many self-defense trainings with girls, women, even the elderly. Each class is never more than an hour and you have to tailor what you can to their age and ability and their likely attackers. I can't grab my trainee with the aggression they are going to experience, only the strength... I can't surprise my trainee with the suddenness of a brutal attack, I can only respond unexpectantly to their effort to defend and keep them thinking. The best we can do for men or women is teach them how to stay calm and escape detainment if possible. How to be mindful and preventative, and how to be prepared when forced to be in possibly dangerous situations. The real difference in self-defense is not male vs female. It is practice and preparation. The woman, like me, who has trained, taught, fought, and is always conscious of risks surrounding me is in a better place than the strongest man with no preparation...

Marital Arts Self-defense
Now if your question in martial arts trained men vs women, here women should be at an definite ADVANTAGE becasue they are always training with bigger, stronger, possibly faster opponents. While both sexes are receiving the same training, only the women are practicing against a constant challenge. I personally completed in full-contact as a younger woman and even at 14, 15, 16, 17, I sparred with full grown men, full contact. While the most powerful did pull their strength a bit... it wasn't enough to keep a girl from flying if she wasnt mindful and never not practicing their best techniques to win. I also had a violently abusive parent, undiagnosed bipolar, who was much bigger and stronger. I did not fight... only made it worse, but was able to defend myself and evade, prevent major injury and sometimes even stop aggressive responses because this parent was just another opponent. (diagnosed, medicated and pretty awesome now) Such attacks could be a complete surprise, but I knew how to protect myself. The same is true for assault, experienced that early in college due to failing to be mindful of the risks at my young "I can fly" age. Traumatic as that was, I know I was safer for the years I spent training, better prepared and better responding than any one who only had a self-defense course or two.... or worse, no preparation at all!

In either case, laymen or arts, we can only talk about, show images or push each other as far as is safe in civil interactions. This is a disadvantage to anyone in a true sudden moment of brutality.

It seems to me that men best avoid violence through projecting confidence and not challenging other men, Intentionally or unintentionally. There are men who look for reasons to fight other men, but you don’t see this so much with women. Women on the other hand are often seen as prey by default, underestimated, and quick to kindness in the face of clear boundary violations. Thus, women have to project an aura of “don’t f— with me” when they feel threatened, and be prepared to immediately stab the man in critical areas if necessary. I’ve heard that an issue with women‘s self-defense classes, is that they don’t actually give women a taste of the extreme violence they’ll face, and then they’re completely caught off guard when a real sexual assault or rape happens.

What would you say are the key differences between women’s and men’s self defense?