Women’s versus men’s self-defense?

[isshinryuronin]

I do not see combat as a primary tactic, only something that one must prepare for. If one cannot come to a resolution, conflict inevitably follows, this is just a reality of things.

Exactly. We do not disagree. Consider this sequencial flow:

Avoidence: Stay away from wild parties, rowdy bars, dark alleys. gang areas, etc.
Situational Awareness: Be alert for potential threats.
De-escalation: Once a threat presents itself, use confident posture and calming words, if you have time).
Self-Defense: Physical response to an imminent attack or one in progress.

It seems many here are lumping all of these into the "self-defense" category. I call each one by their individual name. Lumping them together I'd call "personal safety."

 

[hoshin1600]

Yes and all she'd have to do is live with the trauma, humiliation and shame of the experience.

Yup.
And it was a better choice than having her abusive boyfriend beat and sexually abuse her 4 year old daughter,instead of her the next time he comes home in a drunken rage.

 

[hoshin1600]

Avoidence: Stay away from wild parties, rowdy bars, dark alleys. gang areas, etc.
Situational Awareness: Be alert for potential threats.
De-escalation: Once a threat presents itself, use confident posture and calming words, if you have time).
Self-Defense: Physical response to an imminent attack or one in progress.

These are valid options in some cases. However they apply to the situations men find themselves in more so than women.
Help me out and explain and apply these to my example of grocery woman. When should she do each and what would that look like?

 

[Mallic]

Yup.
And it was a better choice than having her abusive boyfriend beat and sexually abuse her 4 year old daughter,instead of her the next time he comes home in a drunken rage.

That's kind of an extreme case, don't you think?

These are valid options in some cases. However they apply to the situations men find themselves in more so than women.
Help me out and explain and apply these to my example of grocery woman. When should she do each and what would that look like?

Honestly everything he mentioned just seem like life practices, not just in very specific circumstances.

 

[hoshin1600]

Nope it's actually very common. It's also the number two go to threat abusive men use. "if you don't comply I will hurt your kids".
it is a very effective. Number one threat would be comply or I will hurt YOU. But threats to your kids is actually more effective and they know this.
However when your in a relationship with your abuser they will use all kinds of evil to punish you for resistance. Abusive relationships often end in murder. Not because he wanted her dead but rather because there was an on going escalation of punishment that was brought to such a level that murder was inevitable.

(Example; my aunt was shot in the face with a shotgun, in her living room by her abusive husband of 15 years.)

 

[Mallic]

Nope it's actually very common. It's also the number two go to threat abusive men use. "if you don't comply I will hurt your kids".
it is a very effective. Number one threat would be comply or I will hurt YOU. But threats to your kids is actually more effective and they know this.
However when your in a relationship with your abuser they will use all kinds of evil to punish you for resistance. Abusive relationships often end in murder. Not because he wanted her dead but rather because there was an on going escalation of punishment that was brought to such a level that murder was inevitable.

I'm genuinely curious how they would even get with such a person to begin with, does the guy just put on an act while they are dating and then pull off the mask once they get locked in?

And maybe it's just me but i could never wrap my mind around someone going THAT low. Maybe it's BECAUSE I'm a man but I hear a dude make a threat like "Either let me do what i want or i'll hurt your kids." The only thing that comes to mind is this.

Like seriously that is such weak sauce, it's honestly pathetic. And more often than not, when you DO stand up to them, you're like "Wow...this is the guy i was so scared of all this time?"

 

[hoshin1600]

I'm genuinely curious how they would even get with such a person to begin with, does the guy just put on an act while they are dating and then pull off the mask once they get locked in?

And maybe it's just me but i could never wrap my mind around someone going THAT low. Maybe it's BECAUSE I'm a man but I hear a dude make a threat like "Either let me do what i want or i'll hurt your kids." The only thing that comes to mind is this.

Like seriously that is such weak sauce, it's honestly pathetic. And more often than not, when you DO stand up to them, you're like "Wow...this is the guy i was so scared of all this time?"

I'm not inclined to get into all that here. I already mentioned therapy in my posts. There is a lot of evil in the world.
Violence is often presented to men with bravado and arrogance, it deserves a Hulk smash. For women evil comes to them with deception and a smile. It's the worst kind of evil.

 

[Mallic]

I'm not inclined to get into all that here. I already mentioned therapy in my posts. There is a lot of evil in the world.
Violence is often presented to men with bravado and arrogance, it deserves a Hulk smash. For women evil comes to them with deception and a smile. It's the worst kind of evil.

Ugh...nothing makes my skin crawl quite like a two-faced liar.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

If one is concerned about hesitation and going to prison for life, then knowing local laws are a consideration. Often, a woman is at a disparity of force when attacked by a male. So, weapons can equalize that force.

This is too general, too product driven. Are you using OC, a stabby, or a bludgeon? What is the best way for her to discreetly carry it, without getting in trouble?

Pertaining to women's self-defense, here is a short general outline of what I think are the general elements:

DEFENSE: A woman (or small man) to be caught in a bigger and stronger opponent's arms is the LAST thing they would want to do IMO, unless they are expert at judo or other grappling art. I would go so far as to say that their major strategy should be built around this idea. Normally, one wants to avoid the opponent's advantages.

OFFENSE: A weaker defender should seek out the most sensitive targets: Eyes, nose, throat, fingers, groin and side of knee. Scratching and biting are good too. TKD type kicks can be strong attacks while staying out of the opponent's grappling range.

TACTICS: As most male attackers view a female as little threat, they will be apt to close using less caution and not in a guarded posture. Accordingly, they can be enticed to get in range of strikes as listed above and not have defense in mind. At this point, the defender should launch a sudden and furious attack, continuing until they have a good opportunity to escape, or if not possible, until the attacker is effectively removed as a threat.

TRAINING, Mental: This is probably the most difficult part for most females - overcoming their natural aversion to physical violence and lack of confidence. All training should be done with ferocity and incremental difficulty to build confidence in the result.

TRAINING, Physical: Heavy bag to practice knees, palm heels (I favor these over punches as females have a more delicate bone structure and it lessens the weak wrist joint as a factor) kicks and elbows. Softer targets to practice finger thrusts to eyes and throat. Concentration on power delivery. Partner drills with a well-padded (including face mask) attacker allowing realistic scenarios with gradual increasing resistance.

INSTRUCTOR: Aside from teaching technique execution, the teacher must keep the lesson rather intense, physically and mentally. Their other main job is to make sure the partners are not giving up or taking a dive too easily beyond the first few lessons.

No mention of weapons-specific training, like stabs to the eyes, trachea, femeral triangle? Padlock to the side or top of the head? Methods of deployment?

Once a man commits his weight and aggression, a lot of the typical self-defense technique stuff goes out the window.

 

[Mallic]

This is too general, too product driven. Are you using OC, a stabby, or a bludgeon? What is the best way for her to discreetly carry it, without getting in trouble?

No mention of weapons-specific training, like stabs to the eyes, trachea, femeral triangle? Padlock to the side or top of the head?

Once a man commits his weight and aggression, a lot of the typical self-defense technique stuff goes out the window.

I mean, sure if your intent is to kill them. And if your concern is within legal boundaries, look deal with the situation currently in front of you and worry about the legal problems later, none of that will matter if you're the one lined up with chalk.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Some thoughts…if a dojo doesn’t feature contact fighting against resistance, it’s likely that the dojo’s stance towards self defense has a similar mindset.

If a dojo teaches Self Defense, women should not spar, or roll, against women unless that’s the only option.

Unless I missed it, there was no mention of Kata as a self defense exercise. I found that odd but not surprising.

We’re all different, but I believe we’re all trying our best to train and teach others how to become physically and mentally strong and learn to survive and thrive in today’s crazy world.

Kata is discussed at length in threads pertaining to technical aspects of given martial arts. That’s overkill for the purposes of this thread.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

These are valid options in some cases. However they apply to the situations men find themselves in more so than women.
Help me out and explain and apply these to my example of grocery woman. When should she do each and what would that look like?

If women don’t have the confidence to enforce boundaries, to avoid it getting to that point, then the training is moot.

This thread is of no use to women already in abusive relationships.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Unless I missed it, there was no mention of Kata as a self defense exercise. I found that odd but not surprising.

While much of Okinawan kata deals with various self-defense scenarios, especially grab releases, I feel many of the combinations are not ideally suited for women (though some are). I think that's because they were mostly developed by men to fight other men. Many of the early karate/pre-karate practitioners who put them together were professional security type people and it was rare for women to be engaged in such activities. I have not heard or read of any female karate practitioners from the 1800's to early 1900's.

Nowadays there are many female black belts in the East and West that are able to take care of themselves. But when discussing "women's self-defense" I am not referring to these highly trained women, but rather the lay person who just wants to increase the odds in her favor. Their short-term training must be more specialized and concentrated to achieve this.

 

[hoshin1600]

If women don’t have the confidence to enforce boundaries, to avoid it getting to that point, then the training is moot.

This thread is of no use to women already in abusive relationships.

Yes, exactly my point. Now what do you think the ratio is of women dealing with those close violent relationships and women defending themselves against an unknown random assault?

 

[Mallic]

Yes, exactly my point. Now what do you think the ratio is of women dealing with those close violent relationships and women defending themselves against an unknown random assault?

Then i feel this entire discussion is moot, as you're already stuck in the worst-case scenario. What can you do other than lament ever trusting the guy in the first place? It's like asking "What do i do when i get a game over in a nuzlocke?" There are so many other things i can compare this to, but i feel I'm already pushing boundaries.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Yes, exactly my point. Now what do you think the ratio is of women dealing with those close violent relationships and women defending themselves against an unknown random assault?

I think women’s first problem is recognizing red flags, paying attention to them, and being unafraid to say no. Training them to engage in extreme violence once that fails, is the next problem.

To my knowledge, women are more likely to experience SA from an associate they’re semi-comfortable with, than they are to be attacked from the shadows.

 

[Mallic]

I think women’s first problem is recognizing red flags, paying attention to them, and being unafraid to say no. Training them to engage in extreme violence once that fails, is the next problem.

To my knowledge, women are more likely to experience SA from an associate they’re semi-comfortable with, than they are to be attacked from the shadows.

In that case just don't trust anybody. Problem solved.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

In that case just don't trust anybody. Problem solved.

Have you started training yet, or studied the people previously discussed?

 

[Mallic]

Have you started training yet, or studied the people previously discussed?

I'm not sure i understand what you're talking about.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

I'm not sure i understand what you're talking about.

Last time we interacted, you said you weren’t training martial arts yet, and I gave you a bunch of resources to study. Have you invested time into either?