Women Self Defence!

[Hanzou]

Never said you did, but people usually cite "BJJ" for "weaker people", when grappling is a very strength intensive thing. They seem to think you would by magic be able to beat somone double your size because you did some BJJ classes. It has value but its not the end all be all some people cite it as. (BJJ is jsut a example, we could potentially get into which type of grappling may be best for this)

Addendum: As far as female on female goes, id think maybe Muay thai and judo would be good fits. Or at least anything that has a heavy amount of clinch work in it. But caviate would still be bigger stronger people.

Well I didn't say "some Bjj Classes", it's going to take years of practice for a woman to be able to overcome a man of larger size and strength, like I'm talking upper Blue/Purple belt level, and that's only if she's serious about her training and doesn't "hide" among the other female practitioners. This is simply the reality, and the results frankly speak for themselves.

I also would argue that it isn't about strength. Strength is certainly a factor, but it isn't the only factor in effective grappling. I'm over 6ft, and about 230 lbs (heavier thanks to COVID), and better trained female practitioners could escape my holds like snakes. I'd have them in side control, mount, back mounts, scarf holds, you name it, and female purple and above belts would slither out or outright sweep me as if I weighed nothing. That's pure technique and utilizing every part of your body in appropriate ways in order to counteract direct power.

Female practitioners I rolled against also heavily favored Guard pulls, and they were very effective at them, but they were also highly adept at reversing a successful takedown (i.e. DLT or single legs). Again, these are all skills they learned from diligent BJJ practice with bigger stronger men.

Finally it's strange that you would mention Judo while seemingly be skeptical of Bjj. Bjj and Judo are similar in some ways, but I would argue that the more robust and open BJJ curriculum and ruleset is better for women in general. Leglocks for example are completely banned in Judo, but are explored heavily in BJJ. Leglocks are highly effective against bigger and stronger individuals. The Guard isn't taught as a viable position in Judo, but is a major part of BJJ. I've already mentioned the benefits of the Guard for female self defense.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well I didn't say "some Bjj Classes", it's going to take years of practice for a woman to be able to overcome a man of larger size and strength, like I'm talking upper Blue/Purple belt level, and that's only if she's serious about her training and doesn't "hide" among the other female practitioners. This is simply the reality, and the results frankly speak for themselves.

I also would argue that it isn't about strength. Strength is certainly a factor, but it isn't the only factor in effective grappling. I'm over 6ft, and about 230 lbs (heavier thanks to COVID), and better trained female practitioners could escape my holds like snakes. I'd have them in side control, mount, back mounts, scarf holds, you name it, and female purple and above belts would slither out or outright sweep me as if I weighed nothing. That's pure technique and utilizing every part of your body in appropriate ways in order to counteract direct power.

Female practitioners I rolled against also heavily favored Guard pulls, and they were very effective at them, but they were also highly adept at reversing a successful takedown (i.e. DLT or single legs). Again, these are all skills they learned from diligent BJJ practice with bigger stronger men.

Finally it's strange that you would mention Judo while seemingly be skeptical of Bjj. Bjj and Judo are similar in some ways, but I would argue that the more robust and open BJJ curriculum and ruleset is better for women in general. Leglocks for example are completely banned in Judo, but are explored heavily in BJJ. Leglocks are highly effective against bigger and stronger individuals. The Guard isn't taught as a viable position in Judo, but is a major part of BJJ. I've already mentioned the benefits of the Guard for female self defense.

As a point of reference, BJJ blue belt is usually something like 3+ years of consistent training, isn't it? And purple is probably somewhere around 5+?

 

[drop bear]

Sweetie, I am, as instructed by the Mod, trying to get the thread back to women's self defence, you want to rehash past posts which you have taken out of context as they were specific answers to specific posts.

But, addressing the problem is NOT telling men not to rape. Enabling abusers is done by a great many people, male and female, as well famously, American presidents......'I grab them by the pussy' to cheers by his supporters. Society needs to stop excusing such behaviours as 'boys will be boys or it's just men being men.'

So, what would you teach on how to fight your way out of these scenarios,in a car, an office, when you are in bed asleep, in a toilet, on a bus, against someone with an edged weapon at your neck who you know and you didn't feel you needed to be on your guard with such as a teacher, fellow worker, bus/cab driver, friend's boyfriend/father/brother etc etc. Too easy and far too vague to say just fight.


I did some checking on rape support groups in the UK, the majority if not all were started and run by rape survivors including the ones for men and the adult survivors of child sexual abuse.

So you said it. But you didn't say it. Ok.

"So, what would you teach on how to fight your way out of these scenarios,in a car, an office, when you are in bed asleep, in a toilet, on a bus, against someone with an edged weapon at your neck who you know and you didn't feel you needed to be on your guard with such as a teacher, fellow worker, bus/cab driver, friend's boyfriend/father/brother etc etc. Too easy and far too vague to say just fight."


This is how I break down a self defense.

Self defence is basically a puzzle. All you are really doing is trying to solve a whole bunch of situations untill you are where you want to be.

Good basic fighting tools would be the go to under pretty much every fighting situation.

That is still vague. But your situation is vague.

Otherwise there are tactics that will help prevent you from being in a situation you can't walk out of. And they are basic tools.

And then there is some gender specific stuff. Like spiking drinks and the like.

 

[Tez3]

So you said it. But you didn't say it. Ok.

"So, what would you teach on how to fight your way out of these scenarios,in a car, an office, when you are in bed asleep, in a toilet, on a bus, against someone with an edged weapon at your neck who you know and you didn't feel you needed to be on your guard with such as a teacher, fellow worker, bus/cab driver, friend's boyfriend/father/brother etc etc. Too easy and far too vague to say just fight."


This is how I break down a self defense.

Self defence is basically a puzzle. All you are really doing is trying to solve a whole bunch of situations untill you are where you want to be.

Good basic fighting tools would be the go to under pretty much every fighting situation.

That is still vague. But your situation is vague.

Otherwise there are tactics that will help prevent you from being in a situation you can't walk out of. And they are basic tools.

And then there is some gender specific stuff. Lik spiking drinks and the

I'm so pleased it is such an easy thing for you to solve, such illuminating solutions to age old problems, can't think why women's self defence is still a thing! Gosh, all a woman needs to do is think her way out of being raped, so simple.
I gave you specific scenarios, ones we've practiced, and you say it's vague. Okay.

 

[Hanzou]

As a point of reference, BJJ blue belt is usually something like 3+ years of consistent training, isn't it? And purple is probably somewhere around 5+?

Blue Belt is about 1-1.5 years on average. Getting to purple takes 2-5 years after blue depending on the practitioner.

 

[Tez3]

We’ve Been Teaching Women to Defend Themselves All Wrong - Washingtonian

When I started looking for a self-defense class, what I was really looking for was one that would teach me how to fight. I go on solo runs most mornings and often walk home alone in the dark from the Metro. If someone were to attack me, I wanted to know, could I take him?

www.washingtonian.com

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Well I didn't say "some Bjj Classes", it's going to take years of practice for a woman to be able to overcome a man of larger size and strength, like I'm talking upper Blue/Purple belt level, and that's only if she's serious about her training and doesn't "hide" among the other female practitioners. This is simply the reality, and the results frankly speak for themselves.

(in case it has any impact on this section, mindset changes in the next section and this was written mostly before the mindset change)

I never said you did that either. I am refering to the overall topic and what i have seen with it, which is people wave BJJ around like its a magic wand and will solve all your issues of being smaller and weaker by engaging in one of the most atheltic parts of fighting. The only thing that truely makes this redudnent is weapons, but i usually (and presume others) gloss over thaat as a known fact when people ask about martial arts, and then it solves the issue of weapon laws etc. Also, i just remmeber mid writing this, BJJ doesnt have striking normally, striking takes place and tends to accompany somone being attacked, can you say hold them in this position while they have free access to punch you in the back of the head? (working on the basis since its not done you dont have experience in not exposing yourself to effective strikes)

My prefrence towards clinch based and takedown based fighting in this sitiation would be, because A) most female on female social fights i have seen is one handed clinch to the hair, or some other part and hitting with the other hand and that tends to cause a tumble, and B) If the person is stronger than you, you want to minimise the time you take within the kill zone of grappling range. (doesnt even have to be a male, could just be a stronger female) Im going to reply to the rest with my prefrences firmly established with some reason behind them.

I also would argue that it isn't about strength. Strength is certainly a factor, but it isn't the only factor in effective grappling. I'm over 6ft, and about 230 lbs (heavier thanks to COVID), and better trained female practitioners could escape my holds like snakes. I'd have them in side control, mount, back mounts, scarf holds, you name it, and female purple and above belts would slither out or outright sweep me as if I weighed nothing. That's pure technique and utilizing every part of your body in appropriate ways in order to counteract direct power.

Athleticism isnt soley strength(used them both as synonomyms to reduce writing time, apoligies for confusion), its edurance as well and just overal ability. Being bigger and more atheltic certainly helps in fighting, especially grappling. Just to reel in the hyperbole a little from both sides, as lets be fair, not everyone is a 250CM 200kg strongman and not everyone is a prodidgy in BJJ. If we just bring it to normal size archs, lets say: 169.9cm is the average female height and 173.4 Is male. (Wiki list for my countries height averages, i dont understand imperial and cant convert) So that is, if my maths is correct a diffrence of 4cm if both persons are textbook average, i dont think thats much of a height diffrence. Apparntly 251cm is the tallest man thats been recorded globally. So lets just keep it within average ranges, somone who is on the shorter side would find somone who is average bigger, and the reverse for bigger side. I dont really see the need to discuss "what if your bigger and stronger" because then you have the advantage, and there are a few videos out there of females who are bigger than the male in question victimising them.

That was a lot more rambly than i intended it to be. I am throwing out weight, and health conditions and age diffrences, for sake of argument they have none and are the same age. Weight brings in the issue is it fat or muslce? Obesity crisis muddles that, granted it gives you a advantage if they cant move 100kg's easily irrespective if its muscle or fat, or mostly one or the other.


And me realsing that males may generally be more resistant to punching than females has made me realsie this is the wrong angle to go with this, and makes the above next to usless other than pointing out how hyperbolic we were both being. The better angle is this, if you are weaker you are always at a dis advantage, but fighting back increases chances of living if somone tries something (depends on motive) as you make yourself a harder target so they leave for a easier one, one of the principles of defence, make yourself a hard target. (with the caviate that attracts people after hard targets, as hard targets tend to be hard because they are valuble) As long as you go into it with the angle of "you are making yourself a hard target and buying time at minimum, and maybe can best them if the odds are in my favour" i dont see the issue. Just no hollywood parapalgic dwarf is going to go mano a mano against a 200cm, 200kg strongman who has a 10-1 boxing record. You arent likely to best them (not the dwarf here)unless there is a pretty big skill outset, or you get lucky so its probbly best you dont think of yourself as besting them rather you have disrupted what ever they were going to do to you thus made it a victory on your behalf.

Oh if you wernt in a public place for buying time to make sense, you violated another principle of self defence, and thats observation and route selection, and also having somone with you which dissuades (some) crime. Just going to paraphrase a geoff thompson quote "the point of self defence isnt so you feel safe going down a dark alley, but to avoid the dark alley"

Striken through because i wasted way too much time writing and i think i made some good points that should be read, it just isnt in play as reply to the argument. (i dont know if everyone knows what a strike through means, but thats it in breif as i have spent way too long writing this part)

Finally it's strange that you would mention Judo while seemingly be skeptical of Bjj. Bjj and Judo are similar in some ways, but I would argue that the more robust and open BJJ curriculum and ruleset is better for women in general. Leglocks for example are completely banned in Judo, but are explored heavily in BJJ. Leglocks are highly effective against bigger and stronger individuals. The Guard isn't taught as a viable position in Judo, but is a major part of BJJ. I've already mentioned the benefits of the Guard for female self defense.

(written before above relisation, but i stand by it)

Explained my prefrence towards judo earlier, takedown based so it should minimise your exposure to grappling more than BJJ which seems to be more, i dont know how to word it, gripping them based. Ground fighting if done in Judo (its allowed and done) is normally reserved at higher levels, the focus is on takedowns. Its 30 seconds to pin your oppinent or put them in whatnever approved submissiones as far as i know for olympic judo. Its not the end all be all, but i think the FOCUS should be on takedowns and clinch work, not the only thing you do.

(written with the above realstiation)

the 30 second blitz judo ground fighting may or may not be more useful for playing for time, as its partly to play for time. If you know you cant get into a superior position, play for time and minimise their effect. With the above caviate about location, i would say you are dead if you cant best them and no one will come to help, but defetism literally kills people. (but you are dead)

 

[Steve]

We’ve Been Teaching Women to Defend Themselves All Wrong - Washingtonian

When I started looking for a self-defense class, what I was really looking for was one that would teach me how to fight. I go on solo runs most mornings and often walk home alone in the dark from the Metro. If someone were to attack me, I wanted to know, could I take him?

www.washingtonian.com

I've been skimming this thread for the last few days, but want to jump in on this. I like the article overall. I don't know if I'm too keen on the phrase "empowerment based self defense," but the idea is fairly consistent with how I tend to think of self defense.

Simply put, learning to fight probably isn't the thing that will keep you more safe. Or said another way, like many of the men on this site who have never been in a fight in their adult lives, most women won't be either. But there are a lot of things we can do that make us more safe other than learning to fight. I really like the idea of self defense classes that focus on skills and traits that will help a person actually be more safe.

But I also think if fighting is being taught in the school, it should be taught by people who have experience fighting and should teach students actual skill. It was telling to me that the person described as the Yoda in the article found that after 2 years, her karate skills were insufficient, to the point that she fundamentally reimagined her entire approach to self defense.

As a relevant aside, several years ago (maybe 5 or 6 now), a person competing on American Ninja Warrior attributed her "ninja" training (i.e., her strength, agility, and conditioning training) to her successful defense against a person who was holding a knife to her throat. They didn't mention any martial arts or fight training.

Also, never received an answer from a moderator about the women's self defense forum. Is it gone or just hidden? @jks9199 @gpseymour @Monkey Turned Wolf? There were several threads in that forum that might save us all some time.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I've been skimming this thread for the last few days, but want to jump in on this. I like the article overall. I don't know if I'm too keen on the phrase "empowerment based self defense," but the idea is fairly consistent with how I tend to think of self defense.

Simply put, learning to fight probably isn't the thing that will keep you more safe. Or said another way, like many of the men on this site who have never been in a fight in their adult lives, most women won't be either. But there are a lot of things we can do that make us more safe other than learning to fight. I really like the idea of self defense classes that focus on skills and traits that will help a person actually be more safe.

But I also think if fighting is being taught in the school, it should be taught by people who have experience fighting and should teach students actual skill. It was telling to me that the person described as the Yoda in the article found that after 2 years, her karate skills were insufficient, to the point that she fundamentally reimagined her entire approach to self defense.

As a relevant aside, several years ago (maybe 5 or 6 now), a person competing on American Ninja Warrior attributed her "ninja" training (i.e., her strength, agility, and conditioning training) to her successful defense against a person who was holding a knife to her throat. They didn't mention any martial arts or fight training.

Also, never received an answer from a moderator about the women's self defense forum. Is it gone or just hidden? @jks9199 @gpseymour @Monkey Turned Wolf? There were several threads in that forum that might save us all some time.

Didn't see the question. But we're currently discussing if we're able to bring it back and set it up with the same restrictions. Just figuring out if it can happen with the current technical framework.

 

[Tez3]

(in case it has any impact on this section, mindset changes in the next section and this was written mostly before the mindset change)

I never said you did that either. I am refering to the overall topic and what i have seen with it, which is people wave BJJ around like its a magic wand and will solve all your issues of being smaller and weaker by engaging in one of the most atheltic parts of fighting. The only thing that truely makes this redudnent is weapons, but i usually (and presume others) gloss over thaat as a known fact when people ask about martial arts, and then it solves the issue of weapon laws etc. Also, i just remmeber mid writing this, BJJ doesnt have striking normally, striking takes place and tends to accompany somone being attacked, can you say hold them in this position while they have free access to punch you in the back of the head? (working on the basis since its not done you dont have experience in not exposing yourself to effective strikes)

My prefrence towards clinch based and takedown based fighting in this sitiation would be, because A) most female on female social fights i have seen is one handed clinch to the hair, or some other part and hitting with the other hand and that tends to cause a tumble, and B) If the person is stronger than you, you want to minimise the time you take within the kill zone of grappling range. (doesnt even have to be a male, could just be a stronger female) Im going to reply to the rest with my prefrences firmly established with some reason behind them.



Athleticism isnt soley strength(used them both as synonomyms to reduce writing time, apoligies for confusion), its edurance as well and just overal ability. Being bigger and more atheltic certainly helps in fighting, especially grappling. Just to reel in the hyperbole a little from both sides, as lets be fair, not everyone is a 250CM 200kg strongman and not everyone is a prodidgy in BJJ. If we just bring it to normal size archs, lets say: 169.9cm is the average female height and 173.4 Is male. (Wiki list for my countries height averages, i dont understand imperial and cant convert) So that is, if my maths is correct a diffrence of 4cm if both persons are textbook average, i dont think thats much of a height diffrence. Apparntly 251cm is the tallest man thats been recorded globally. So lets just keep it within average ranges, somone who is on the shorter side would find somone who is average bigger, and the reverse for bigger side. I dont really see the need to discuss "what if your bigger and stronger" because then you have the advantage, and there are a few videos out there of females who are bigger than the male in question victimising them.

That was a lot more rambly than i intended it to be. I am throwing out weight, and health conditions and age diffrences, for sake of argument they have none and are the same age. Weight brings in the issue is it fat or muslce? Obesity crisis muddles that, granted it gives you a advantage if they cant move 100kg's easily irrespective if its muscle or fat, or mostly one or the other.


And me realsing that males may generally be more resistant to punching than females has made me realsie this is the wrong angle to go with this, and makes the above next to usless other than pointing out how hyperbolic we were both being. The better angle is this, if you are weaker you are always at a dis advantage, but fighting back increases chances of living if somone tries something (depends on motive) as you make yourself a harder target so they leave for a easier one, one of the principles of defence, make yourself a hard target. (with the caviate that attracts people after hard targets, as hard targets tend to be hard because they are valuble) As long as you go into it with the angle of "you are making yourself a hard target and buying time at minimum, and maybe can best them if the odds are in my favour" i dont see the issue. Just no hollywood parapalgic dwarf is going to go mano a mano against a 200cm, 200kg strongman who has a 10-1 boxing record. You arent likely to best them (not the dwarf here)unless there is a pretty big skill outset, or you get lucky so its probbly best you dont think of yourself as besting them rather you have disrupted what ever they were going to do to you thus made it a victory on your behalf.

Oh if you wernt in a public place for buying time to make sense, you violated another principle of self defence, and thats observation and route selection, and also having somone with you which dissuades (some) crime. Just going to paraphrase a geoff thompson quote "the point of self defence isnt so you feel safe going down a dark alley, but to avoid the dark alley"

Striken through because i wasted way too much time writing and i think i made some good points that should be read, it just isnt in play as reply to the argument. (i dont know if everyone knows what a strike through means, but thats it in breif as i have spent way too long writing this part)





(written before above relisation, but i stand by it)

Explained my prefrence towards judo earlier, takedown based so it should minimise your exposure to grappling more than BJJ which seems to be more, i dont know how to word it, gripping them based. Ground fighting if done in Judo (its allowed and done) is normally reserved at higher levels, the focus is on takedowns. Its 30 seconds to pin your oppinent or put them in whatnever approved submissiones as far as i know for olympic judo. Its not the end all be all, but i think the FOCUS should be on takedowns and clinch work, not the only thing you do.

(written with the above realstiation)

the 30 second blitz judo ground fighting may or may not be more useful for playing for time, as its partly to play for time. If you know you cant get into a superior position, play for time and minimise their effect. With the above caviate about location, i would say you are dead if you cant best them and no one will come to help, but defetism literally kills people. (but you are dead)

Watching random videos on social media and deciding that women when fighting for their lives would merely pull hair is ridiculous. ***** fights where girls are most likely drunk are a completely different thing to a real fight. Girls pulling each other's hair is a psychological tactic designed to ruin the other girl's appearance and make her literally look bad. Women will punch each other out if it were a real fight between them usually when theres no men around.

Sexual assaults are rarely about trying to kill someone, they aren't usually about sex either but the domination and humiliation of the victim, sometimes it's revenge or the idea of teaching them a lesson. The first thought the victim has is of disbelief then how to get out of this alive.

To get out alive one must decide whether to physically fight or not. Gut feeling will tell you, sometimes the only thing to do is to shut your mind off and wait until it's over. There should never be any recriminations over this, no one can tell a victim what she should have done to survive. Many do, assuming the lack of fight means it wasn't rape.

The sole aim of someone being assaulted is to escape, not to gain position, not to hold on to but only to distract long enough to get away. The distraction should be by any and all means possible. Sexual assault is not a random crime, making it supposedly harder so the attacker goes away looking for an easier target won't work, struggling/fighting often increases the attacker's enjoyment and can up the violence on their part because the victim is to blame for escalating it in the attacker 's mind ie you made me do it.

 

[Tez3]

I've been skimming this thread for the last few days, but want to jump in on this. I like the article overall. I don't know if I'm too keen on the phrase "empowerment based self defense," but the idea is fairly consistent with how I tend to think of self defense.

Simply put, learning to fight probably isn't the thing that will keep you more safe. Or said another way, like many of the men on this site who have never been in a fight in their adult lives, most women won't be either. But there are a lot of things we can do that make us more safe other than learning to fight. I really like the idea of self defense classes that focus on skills and traits that will help a person actually be more safe.

But I also think if fighting is being taught in the school, it should be taught by people who have experience fighting and should teach students actual skill. It was telling to me that the person described as the Yoda in the article found that after 2 years, her karate skills were insufficient, to the point that she fundamentally reimagined her entire approach to self defense.

As a relevant aside, several years ago (maybe 5 or 6 now), a person competing on American Ninja Warrior attributed her "ninja" training (i.e., her strength, agility, and conditioning training) to her successful defense against a person who was holding a knife to her throat. They didn't mention any martial arts or fight training.

Also, never received an answer from a moderator about the women's self defense forum. Is it gone or just hidden? @jks9199 @gpseymour @Monkey Turned Wolf? There were several threads in that forum that might save us all some time.

I thought I'd put it up for discussion, I deliberately didn't comment so as not to give certain posters an excuse to attack me personally again.

 

[Steve]

I thought I'd put it up for discussion, I deliberately didn't comment so as not to give certain posters an excuse to attack me personally again.

I've shared a link to a study done in Canada and think it's the same one referenced in the article. Some concrete results, and IIRC, physical training was a relatively small part of the course.

Personally, I think the approach to self defense outlined in that article is better for most everyone, male or female. Though learning to fight CAN be fun.

 

[Tez3]

Who on earth considers the word for female dogs 'worthy' of censorship?

 

[drop bear]

I'm so pleased it is such an easy thing for you to solve, such illuminating solutions to age old problems, can't think why women's self defence is still a thing! Gosh, all a woman needs to do is think her way out of being raped, so simple.
I gave you specific scenarios, ones we've practiced, and you say it's vague. Okay.

For those specific scenarios.

Your average trained mma fighter would have as good a set of tools to fight out of those situations as anyone. All the mechanics are basically covered.

Who they are doesn't change that. Where they are doesn't change that and the knife at the throat is such an advantage that there isn't really a dominant system to deal with it.

I don't agree with this niche marketing that you are trying for. But if you have a better system than anyone else feel free to show it.

 

[drop bear]

I've been skimming this thread for the last few days, but want to jump in on this. I like the article overall. I don't know if I'm too keen on the phrase "empowerment based self defense," but the idea is fairly consistent with how I tend to think of self defense.

Simply put, learning to fight probably isn't the thing that will keep you more safe. Or said another way, like many of the men on this site who have never been in a fight in their adult lives, most women won't be either. But there are a lot of things we can do that make us more safe other than learning to fight. I really like the idea of self defense classes that focus on skills and traits that will help a person actually be more safe.

But I also think if fighting is being taught in the school, it should be taught by people who have experience fighting and should teach students actual skill. It was telling to me that the person described as the Yoda in the article found that after 2 years, her karate skills were insufficient, to the point that she fundamentally reimagined her entire approach to self defense.

As a relevant aside, several years ago (maybe 5 or 6 now), a person competing on American Ninja Warrior attributed her "ninja" training (i.e., her strength, agility, and conditioning training) to her successful defense against a person who was holding a knife to her throat. They didn't mention any martial arts or fight training.

Also, never received an answer from a moderator about the women's self defense forum. Is it gone or just hidden? @jks9199 @gpseymour @Monkey Turned Wolf? There were several threads in that forum that might save us all some time.

Which is the out maneuver portion of self defence.

Assertiveness, awareness, sales training, I really like the cash in transit stuff.

Not being lured in to that house so that your supposed friends can bash you.

 

[Tez3]

For those specific scenarios.

Your average trained mma fighter would have as good a set of tools to fight out of those situations as anyone. All the mechanics are basically covered.

Who they are doesn't change that. Where they are doesn't change that and the knife at the throat is such an advantage that there isn't really a dominant system to deal with it.

I don't agree with this niche marketing that you are trying for. But if you have a better system than anyone else feel free to show it.

Niche marketing? What on earth are you on about, since when has over half the world's population been niche?

This subject just goes over the top of your head, oh I know, nothing goes over your head, you would catch it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Blue Belt is about 1-1.5 years on average. Getting to purple takes 2-5 years after blue depending on the practitioner.

Thanks.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

can you say hold them in this position while they have free access to punch you in the back of the head? (working on the basis since its not done you dont have experience in not exposing yourself to effective strikes)

It’s my experience that BJJ positioning and control (central to what they do) makes effective strikes much harder to execute once they start working on you. You can see this in MMA matches.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Who on earth considers the word for female dogs 'worthy' of censorship?

In most of the US, it’s a significant insult.

 

[Hanzou]

(in case it has any impact on this section, mindset changes in the next section and this was written mostly before the mindset change)

I never said you did that either. I am refering to the overall topic and what i have seen with it, which is people wave BJJ around like its a magic wand and will solve all your issues of being smaller and weaker by engaging in one of the most atheltic parts of fighting. The only thing that truely makes this redudnent is weapons, but i usually (and presume others) gloss over thaat as a known fact when people ask about martial arts, and then it solves the issue of weapon laws etc. Also, i just remmeber mid writing this, BJJ doesnt have striking normally, striking takes place and tends to accompany somone being attacked, can you say hold them in this position while they have free access to punch you in the back of the head? (working on the basis since its not done you dont have experience in not exposing yourself to effective strikes)

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Saying that "people" are waving Bjj around like its a magic wand that will solve "all your issues" is a straw man. I haven't seen anyone make that argument in this thread, and it's an argument I surely have never made.

And yes, weapons are a factor, but weapons are a factor regardless of the situation, and if you decide to fight back, that's a risk you're going to have to take. If you begin to fight back and they brandish a knife and attempt to stab you, there's a good chance they're going to successfully stab you. Again, that is a reality regardless of what martial art we're talking about, and frankly it sounds like another straw-man you're deploying for whatever reason.

As for striking, you can view the old Gracie in Action tapes, the first UFCs, and other examples to show how BJJ deals with striking. In my experience within BJJ we were taught how to deal with people striking us while grappling, especially in the Guard.

My prefrence towards clinch based and takedown based fighting in this sitiation would be, because A) most female on female social fights i have seen is one handed clinch to the hair, or some other part and hitting with the other hand and that tends to cause a tumble, and B) If the person is stronger than you, you want to minimise the time you take within the kill zone of grappling range. (doesnt even have to be a male, could just be a stronger female) Im going to reply to the rest with my prefrences firmly established with some reason behind them.



Athleticism isnt soley strength(used them both as synonomyms to reduce writing time, apoligies for confusion), its edurance as well and just overal ability. Being bigger and more atheltic certainly helps in fighting, especially grappling. Just to reel in the hyperbole a little from both sides, as lets be fair, not everyone is a 250CM 200kg strongman and not everyone is a prodidgy in BJJ. If we just bring it to normal size archs, lets say: 169.9cm is the average female height and 173.4 Is male. (Wiki list for my countries height averages, i dont understand imperial and cant convert) So that is, if my maths is correct a diffrence of 4cm if both persons are textbook average, i dont think thats much of a height diffrence. Apparntly 251cm is the tallest man thats been recorded globally. So lets just keep it within average ranges, somone who is on the shorter side would find somone who is average bigger, and the reverse for bigger side. I dont really see the need to discuss "what if your bigger and stronger" because then you have the advantage, and there are a few videos out there of females who are bigger than the male in question victimising them.

That was a lot more rambly than i intended it to be. I am throwing out weight, and health conditions and age diffrences, for sake of argument they have none and are the same age. Weight brings in the issue is it fat or muslce? Obesity crisis muddles that, granted it gives you a advantage if they cant move 100kg's easily irrespective if its muscle or fat, or mostly one or the other.


And me realsing that males may generally be more resistant to punching than females has made me realsie this is the wrong angle to go with this, and makes the above next to usless other than pointing out how hyperbolic we were both being. The better angle is this, if you are weaker you are always at a dis advantage, but fighting back increases chances of living if somone tries something (depends on motive) as you make yourself a harder target so they leave for a easier one, one of the principles of defence, make yourself a hard target. (with the caviate that attracts people after hard targets, as hard targets tend to be hard because they are valuble) As long as you go into it with the angle of "you are making yourself a hard target and buying time at minimum, and maybe can best them if the odds are in my favour" i dont see the issue. Just no hollywood parapalgic dwarf is going to go mano a mano against a 200cm, 200kg strongman who has a 10-1 boxing record. You arent likely to best them (not the dwarf here)unless there is a pretty big skill outset, or you get lucky so its probbly best you dont think of yourself as besting them rather you have disrupted what ever they were going to do to you thus made it a victory on your behalf.

Oh if you wernt in a public place for buying time to make sense, you violated another principle of self defence, and thats observation and route selection, and also having somone with you which dissuades (some) crime. Just going to paraphrase a geoff thompson quote "the point of self defence isnt so you feel safe going down a dark alley, but to avoid the dark alley"

Striken through because i wasted way too much time writing and i think i made some good points that should be read, it just isnt in play as reply to the argument. (i dont know if everyone knows what a strike through means, but thats it in breif as i have spent way too long writing this part)

I'm sorry, but I don't know what point you're trying to make here. Obviously a paraplegic dwarf is going to have a very difficult, if not impossible time defeating a huge, muscle bound man who is a trained/professional fighter. I'm not sure what any of that has to do with a woman trained in BJJ dealing with a bigger, stronger assailant. It's like saying that I, as a trained swimmer has a chance to survive being stranded a few miles off shore, in the dark, and having to swim during a storm. However, you counter that by saying that I now have to swim with a 100lb anchor tied to my legs and both my arms missing. Yeah, in that scenario I'm very likely to drown, and it's rather irrelevant to the original point made;

Training gives you a chance to survive bad situations.

(written before above relisation, but i stand by it)

Explained my prefrence towards judo earlier, takedown based so it should minimise your exposure to grappling more than BJJ which seems to be more, i dont know how to word it, gripping them based. Ground fighting if done in Judo (its allowed and done) is normally reserved at higher levels, the focus is on takedowns. Its 30 seconds to pin your oppinent or put them in whatnever approved submissiones as far as i know for olympic judo. Its not the end all be all, but i think the FOCUS should be on takedowns and clinch work, not the only thing you do.

(written with the above realstiation)

the 30 second blitz judo ground fighting may or may not be more useful for playing for time, as its partly to play for time. If you know you cant get into a superior position, play for time and minimise their effect. With the above caviate about location, i would say you are dead if you cant best them and no one will come to help, but defetism literally kills people. (but you are dead)

Yeah, I have no issue with a woman practicing Judo. If BJJ is not available, Judo would be a clear alternative choice. Again, the issue with Judo is their rigid rule structure which simply does not benefit a woman in self defense situation beyond the ability to perform a throw and knock her assailant out with a head impact. Now, if a woman can pull that off, then that's fantastic, however what if the assault starts while she's laying on her back? What if she does perform a throw but she ends up on the ground with her assailant on top of her? What if they land in neutral position and both begin to scramble for dominant positioning? What if she lands on top of him and he begins to grapple with her to obtain dominant positioning? This is why the 30 second limit and pinning is really a poor substitute for learning the Guard and learning about positional dominance in grappling.

Not to knock Judo here, but a Judo black belt is equivalent to a starter Blue belt in BJJ in terms of newaza. I subbed a Judo brown belt as a 3-stripe white belt. In competitions we just Guard pulled them and subbed them once we were on the ground. Your point about even LESS newaza being taught in modern Judo is very concerning. In order for a woman to successfully defend herself she's going to need to have more skill than a 1-stripe Blue belt in BJJ.

Also what about strikes? You brought up strikes in the case of BJJ, but what about Judo versus striking? In BJJ the Gracie line deals with the reality of striking on a rather consistent basis, but I have yet to see a Judo dojo that deals with it.