Women and Grappling
- Thread starter Nightingale
- Start date
Very good question. In judo, I would do "bridging", which means trying to unbalance him by drawing my feet up closer to the floor and bucking up my hips, then once his weight is a bit off me, I'll move further to push his knee away downward to continue unbalancing him then shrimp. Naturally, I'll use my hands to help unbalance him while I'm bridging.mj-hi-yah said:
There are other moves though...
- Ceicei
It sounds a little like something we worked that one time. We waited for him to unzip (release your one hand) and then tipped him over with our hips...not quite the same, but I'll have to give your way a try. Ceicei just curious, do you find it awkward to work this type of close contact with guys?Ceicei said:
MJ :asian:
I'm so glad you are ok with it! Good friends, and the fact that you are also taking Judo now helps I guess. I really want to work some of these things, but being that I study Kenpo I find it awkward to even ask. LOL:lol: what do you say, um... excuse me, will you please sit on my stomach?...just seems a little funny in a Kenpo school is all.Ceicei said:
MJ :asian:
When I started thinking seriously about cross-training with judo, I asked my kenpo instructor what he thought if I went ahead to take it up. He already knew about my background and encouraged me to go ahead, saying that judo will mesh well with kenpo in giving me some additional tools for self defense. He had taken judo before, so he knew what would be involved with that style. He emphasized the night before my first class in judo to "be sure to empty your glass" of kenpo and my experiences. He didn't want me to go in there with any preconceived ideas or try to compare with what I had trained.mj-hi-yah said:
He also is willing to be my partner if needed if I came away from my judo class confused about something I may have learned. In fact, half of the kenpo instructors at my school have previously studied judo.
He showed me, for example, doing a Delayed Sword and adding a judo shoulder throw at the end. Really cool and takes the attacker by surprise!
- Ceicei
L
lvwhitebir
Guest
mj-hi-yah said:
The sooner you start your defense the better. Waiting for the "right" moment may make it so that when it comes you are in a worse position for responding.
The only problem with doing the umpa quickly is that you have to have control of an arm and a leg to make it work. If he's sitting up, he simply puts his arm out to stop himself from rolling. That's when the elbow escape works well. If he counters the elbow escape, you can simply return to the umpa.
If you do the umpa right, it's very hard for him to maintain his balance while either holding you, hitting you, or taking off clothes to rape you. It uses the strongest muscles in your body (glutes and thighs), so you have a lot of strength already there to do the move. And, the longer it takes, the less likely he'll be able to pull it off.
There are several great books on grappling and BJJ. IMO, the Gracie grappling book is terrific for learning self-defense applications over gi-oriented books. At least check them out to see the details of the moves. When practicing, it's better to find someone who's at least somewhat trained with the move (since leverage over strength is so important) rather than just anybody.
It's a fun venture to start. When I started, the school I was in had a lot of women in it. Since the women couldn't out-muscle the guys, they had to learn leverage faster and were thus able to learn a lot faster than most of the guys.
WhiteBirch
Thanks WhiteBirch!lvwhitebir said:
I got a series of Gracie videos from a friend and at a glance they looked great and actually they sparked my interest in grappling, but I need time to watch them
, and more importantly I think you are right I need to work with people who know what they are doing. When I get a chance...I'll look for the umpa in the videos.MJ :asian:
Phoenix44
Master of Arts
I've been grappling for about 5 years. It's part, but not all, of our curriculum. I've come to this conclusion: Skill compensates for small size, to an extent. But size matters, and strength matters.
I am usually the only woman in my class. It's a class of black belt students, and our dojo has only 2 black belt women. We're all skilled, we're all fit. At least 3 of the men in the class are 200+ lbs. The smallest is 160 lbs--and he's the instructor. I weigh 125 lbs. So what's the outcome? I rarely submit my opponent, but I'm almost never submitted. My feeling is this: if I can hold one of my opponents to a stalement for more than a minute or two, then I've won, baby.
It's made me a skilled grappler, and I appreciate that. However, it makes it impossible for me to know if my technique really works when a 200 lb male can simply "strength out" my locks, or lift me off them!
Self-defense is one thing, when dirty tricks come into play. But for the purpose of sport, let's face it, there's a reason for weight classifications.
I am usually the only woman in my class. It's a class of black belt students, and our dojo has only 2 black belt women. We're all skilled, we're all fit. At least 3 of the men in the class are 200+ lbs. The smallest is 160 lbs--and he's the instructor. I weigh 125 lbs. So what's the outcome? I rarely submit my opponent, but I'm almost never submitted. My feeling is this: if I can hold one of my opponents to a stalement for more than a minute or two, then I've won, baby.
It's made me a skilled grappler, and I appreciate that. However, it makes it impossible for me to know if my technique really works when a 200 lb male can simply "strength out" my locks, or lift me off them!
Self-defense is one thing, when dirty tricks come into play. But for the purpose of sport, let's face it, there's a reason for weight classifications.
Phoenix44 said:
I guess for women (men too) in any MA it comes down to avoiding having a false sense of security involving how skilled you are. It's good to hear also from a woman who has grappled. I agree about the weight classifications for sport purposes! Also, I think I mentioned upthread that in a real fight I'd have different choices or as you say dirty tricks to try that could change the game as well. All in all, it sounds like you find your training in grappling worthwhile!
MJ
Fightfan00
Orange Belt
I think that grappling is the same for a man and woman.Its all how you apply the full package together.Just grapple and fight dirty.Through in some eye poking,and pinching and your good to go!
brothershaw
Purple Belt
This may have been said before but -
And I am not a grappler
But I think it is good for women to learn some grappling, they made find themselves in a position where the attacker is trying to just outmuscle and pin them, and knowing what to do , and how to move would be alot more helpful than trying to match muscle.
A man attacking a woman may me more ready to try wrestle a woman because of his supposed size or strength advantage, for a woman who knows how to wrestle, and joint lock to break the joints, she would be working at her advantage.
I could be completely wrong.
And I am not a grappler
But I think it is good for women to learn some grappling, they made find themselves in a position where the attacker is trying to just outmuscle and pin them, and knowing what to do , and how to move would be alot more helpful than trying to match muscle.
A man attacking a woman may me more ready to try wrestle a woman because of his supposed size or strength advantage, for a woman who knows how to wrestle, and joint lock to break the joints, she would be working at her advantage.
I could be completely wrong.
DeLamar.J
3rd Black Belt
Nightingale said:
I feel that grappling is great for women as well as men because when you put your whole body on one limb or joint, you can control almost anyone no matter what your size, unless your the size of a little kid or something. But once you learn to aplly the holds properly, a woman can submit a man. Especially if he underestimates her. And most men are very foolish to underestimate a woman, and there pride pays dearly :waah: .
When I was in highschool I taught my girlfriend, now my wife, how to arm wrestle, to put her wieght into it properly and to start out with everything she had. I wouldnt ever let her arm wrestle anyone but me. Then we were all arm wrestling one day and she ended up arm wrestling this guy and he was laughing because she only weighs about 100 pounds, then they start and she slammed his arm down and caught him off gaurd, in was very funny,everyone was laughing, it was classic :boing2: . He never lived that down. But the moral of the story is NEVER underestimate a woman.
I also did alot of work with her on a sleeper hold and she could choke out most men if she got the chance to apply the hold. When my friends come over and we start playing around I will bet them that they will have to tap out if she puts them in a sleeper, and they always do, even myself. And remember my wife weighs 100 pounds and I am 205 pounds.
I figured that type of technique would be useful incase we were ever in a situation with multiple attackers, while they are worried about taking me out and not giving the slightest worry of a 100lb girl standing there afraid, she could run up and choke one of those jerks until I could come over and finish them off or until he passes out.
:shrug: :shrug:
We both love grappling. It is challenging, fun and one heckuva workout. I go up against guys that are easily 100 pounds bigger then me. Sometimes I find myself dangling off of their arms when they decide to just sit up while I am trying to execute a lock or something :shrug:. All in good fun and a great learning experience
LOL! My 100 pound daughter loves going up against the new guys in our grappling classes. They all look at her the same way kinda like... hmmm...what can she possibly do to me! In a short instance once they are on the ground and fall into her guillotene (sp?) choke they find out exactly what she can do... it usually only takes a few seconds :lol:DeLamar.J said:
We both love grappling. It is challenging, fun and one heckuva workout. I go up against guys that are easily 100 pounds bigger then me. Sometimes I find myself dangling off of their arms when they decide to just sit up while I am trying to execute a lock or something :shrug:. All in good fun and a great learning experience
Yeah, my daughter is rather vertically challenged and cute as a button. She looks like a little doll. All the eastern bloc boys in her class were so not impressed when they learned she took martial arts lessons, they challenged her often. When I came to volunteer in her classroom at school, I found she had told them that she can pick me up on her back and hold me there (as in Judo training). They said, 'No you can't.' She looked at me and I obliged her. She picked up all 185 pounds of me (I was heavier then) on her hips and walked across the class with me like that. So one particular eastern bloc boy says, "so what - that's easy." So I waved him over and asked if he'd like to try it. "Sure." He pulled in next to me and as soon as he tried to lift, his little knees just buckled under him. Poor little guy, hee hee hee hee.
BTW - she's eleven...and she LOVES to grapple. Just wait until I teach her chokes a few years down the road. She'll be deadly. No guy who tries to attack her will go unmarked.
HWARANG!!!
BTW - she's eleven...and she LOVES to grapple. Just wait until I teach her chokes a few years down the road. She'll be deadly. No guy who tries to attack her will go unmarked.
HWARANG!!!
I also have a 10 year old. She loves to grapple too! Her coach has been teaching her chokes, but only to be applied to him, which she very much obliges 
.
The newer kids in the class take her for granted sometimes and so do the boys but no one can take your back and put you in a rear naked choke (done to the other kids without the choke part) faster then she can... it has become her trade mark.
Ahh... what a proud mom I truly am!
.The newer kids in the class take her for granted sometimes and so do the boys but no one can take your back and put you in a rear naked choke (done to the other kids without the choke part) faster then she can... it has become her trade mark.
Ahh... what a proud mom I truly am!
I
Insedia_Cantharis
Guest
Being big CAN definetly be an advantage, but if you lack skill it is useless. I'm been doing MMA, and in that form Grappling, for a year and a half. I weigh 105 soking wet. I can tell you with no ego that I make myself proud of being the smallest in class, because I still hold my own.
I'm a female, I grapple, and I like it.
If you are thinking of starting, (and I'm making a blind guess there) I say go for it. You'll have fun.
I'm a female, I grapple, and I like it.
If you are thinking of starting, (and I'm making a blind guess there) I say go for it. You'll have fun.
B
Barra Brazil
Guest
i believe that the most important tool a woman has is her mind. all the moves in the world won't do you one bit of good if you get yourself into a trully dangerous situation. i can give you an example. a good friend of mine was on a bus in southern mexico. the bus was stopped by the military. they walked through the bus and grabbed all the blonde women and led them off the bus to a shack. well, my friend and her sister had already made a crucial mistake. letting your blonde show on a night bus in southern mexico. when things were about to get bad, my friend used the only weapon she had, her mind. she looked the captian in the eyes and asked him how he would feel if this was about to happen to his sister or mother. blew his buzz bad. he sent all the women back on the bus and that was that. now that is martial arts. know your opponent. mexican men are very protective of their sisters and mothers. i've taught rape defence classes and it always seems that people want a quick and easy way to defeat an attacker. well sorry, hate to be the one to give you the bad news but, it doesn't work that way folks. this is not some coriographed(sp?) movie scene. combat is chaos and you better be ready to fight for your life. you can not and must not under estimate your attacker. to ask a question like "is grappling something a woman should train in" seems a bit silly. if you want to be prepared to deal with an attack, you should be grappling four to six hours a week. you should be in a muay thai or other striking class four to six hours a week. you should have a weapon and know how to use it. does a bigger person have an advantage? come on people. don't ever assume your attacker is a dumbass who just got off the boat. do you think that every rapist is on his fist try? guess again. do you think none of his previous victims went for his balls? tried to poke him in the eyes? come on people. do you think you can take a solid blow to the head? or stomach? you had better train and train hard. we've all heard about the girl who stopped an attacker after three months of aikido. great. don't bet your life on it. the truth is you have no idea what will happen in an attack. i love bjj. i train six days a week. to choke out or armbar someone who is bigger and stronger than you, and can blast you in the head, takes a whole lot of training. stopping that someone from knocking you down takes a whole lot of training. so get to it. and don't stop. you will not be ready to fight if you don't make it a part of your life. good luck with your training.
mc
mc
Wow mc interesting first post! Welcome! After reading this I think I really haven't been training hard enough. I'm curious after reading your story about the Mexican bus...What usually happens to blondes in Mexico? Are they raped, murdered, sold into slavery? What's the rest of that story?
