How would you compare the grappling arts on their ability to escape the ground game?

[Gerry Seymour]

When I started practicing nunchucks, I'd wear headgear and a cup.

How are you ever going to learn if you don't concuss yourself with it???

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Yeah, that video - "you first", "no, after you, I insist"...


It's not just a unicorn - it's a gold plated unicorn called Steve who lost a leg in a nasty swimsuit incident but found love with Barry the minotaur and settled down in rural Shropshire to raise their adopted family of bats.

I just learned a lot more about @Steve than I needed to know..

 

[Acronym]

Typically, when people look at a grappling art, they're looking at how well you can win the fight once you're on the ground. Maybe your main sport is the grappling art, in which case the submission or pin is how you get the win. Or you train the art to train your ground game, in which case once it goes down you want the submission. I'm looking at it from the perspective of someone who's primary is striking, and if I go down I'd like to create space and get back to my feet (or vice versa).

My thoughts on this are that wrestling, judo, and BJJ all have different advantages towards this. I took wrestling 20 years ago, and I remember training escapes. BJJ I know seeks to control space, i.e. by creating space and filling it. Do the concepts apply to creating space and then using that space? Or what about Judo. I hear they tend to be more explosive, where BJJ tends to be more methodical.

If your goal was to use the grappling skills to escape the grapple and get back to your feet, which grappling art would you choose?

Here's grund game strength and weaknesses as I see them

Judo strong top game but very vulnerable from a guard (barely have a guard due to their rule set).


BJJ best submissions grappling style for competitions/mat, but a bit naive for the streets, since they take their time. Obvious advantage to Judo is that there is a highly sophisticated guard, wheras Judokas have to put all their cards on being (and staying on top)


Catch wrestling :similiar strength and weakness as Judo but no GI, and less rule restrictions


Sambo: roughly Judo level.

 

[Acronym]

If your goal was to use the grappling skills to escape the grapple and get back to your feet, which grappling art would you choose?

The one with the best guard and that would have to be BJJ. Guard is when you are at bottom

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The one with the best guard and that would have to be BJJ. Guard is when you are at bottom

To clarify for the uninitiated, guard is when you are on the bottom with your legs in play, not in the bottom of mount or side mount or turtle, etc.

 

[drop bear]

The one with the best guard and that would have to be BJJ. Guard is when you are at bottom

Sort of. Wrestling has a better ability to stand back up as it is rewarded in their rule set.

So you don't get guard but you do get turtle and sit outs.

Which is a very real trade off.

And so where a wrestler might stand up. A BJJer might re guard from that position.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Sort of. Wrestling has a better ability to stand back up as it is rewarded in their rule set.

So you don't get guard but you do get turtle and sit outs.

Which is a very real trade off.

And so where a wrestler might stand up. A BJJer might re guard from that position.

I think at least some of us BJJers are learning to explore the standing up option rather than re-guarding by default.

 

[drop bear]

I think at least some of us BJJers are learning to explore the standing up option rather than re-guarding by default.

A lot of the BJJ guys I train with are essentially wrestle jitsu by default because MMA. And will stand up.

So yeah. There is a lot of cross over. And the advantage is you can generally play any meta you want unless you are actually competing.

Even striking is technically grappling. I mean banging a guy in the head untill he let's me pass guard is a guard pass.

 

[Acronym]

Wrestling has a better ability to stand back up .

Not if they are caught in submission grappling they aren't.. Wrestling would be a very poor choice for a rookie at submission grappling who just want to get out of those situations because they expose their backs a lot, and this will lead to TS getting choked.

 

[drop bear]

Not if they are caught in submission grappling they aren't.. Wrestling would be a very poor choice for a rookie at submission grappling who just want to get out of those situations because they expose their backs a lot, and this will lead to TS getting choked.

Not so much.

So staying with one technique for the sake of simplicity. Here is the sit out used to protect the back and therefore the submission.

 

[Acronym]

Not so much.

So staying with one technique for the sake of simplicity. Here is the sit out used to protect the back and therefore the submission.

You don't learn wrestling for BJJ in pure wrestling schools

 

[dvcochran]

Not if they are caught in submission grappling they aren't.. Wrestling would be a very poor choice for a rookie at submission grappling who just want to get out of those situations because they expose their backs a lot, and this will lead to TS getting choked.

IF a frog had a clutch he would not jump.

 

[Acronym]

Don't get me wrong, Wrestling is awesome... But, it's more of a superior athletes sport IMO. If you're an average dude, I think more technical arts like BJJ and Judo might serve your purpose better.

Wrestling is an awesome base to not get taken down.. but TS asked about getting up...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You don't learn wrestling for BJJ in pure wrestling schools

By which you mean places training for wrestling competition, only? Why is that "pure"?

 

[drop bear]

You don't learn wrestling for BJJ in pure wrestling schools

That is why I showed two sit outs.

 

[Hanzou]

By which you mean places training for wrestling competition, only? Why is that "pure"?

Perhaps @Acronym can correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think he's talking about people coming out of HS and College wrestling programs in the United States (Folkstyle I believe). I don't know how it works in other countries, but in the US, BJJ schools get a fairly constant stream of ex-HS and College wrestlers who have amazing takedowns and top game, but get caught in all sorts of submissions in their early days on the mat because they simply aren't used to continuing the fight when their opponent is on their back, and frankly because BJJ is loaded with attacks and escapes from the bottom position (duh).

If those wrestlers stick with Bjj, they actually end up having an advantage over "pure" Bjj practitioners as they move up the ranks. This typically occurs around Blue belt level when their bottom game catches up with their strong top game and takedowns.

 

[Hanzou]

As an aside, some of my best Bjj instructors had a wrestling background.