The benefits of co-ed grappling

[Blooming Lotus]

On a serious note with that, it's proabably a good thing he exposed her to that. As a female, in the real world, a skilled opponent getting physically sleazy is something you certainly might encounter in your travels, and I have several times mysaelf in past several months myself. Even though for her it was in safe and controlled environment, if she takes stock and reflects on that, she'll likely get alot out of it. Better the devil you know right?

BL

 

[peligro1]

That is very true. Good point.

 

[Sarah]

I would have to disagree with that, a Dojo should be a safe environment and if someone is trying to get a cheep feel it is unacceptable. Training for real life situations is one thing, we play games where two guys will try and tie our hands and feet and its all good fun but quite relevant to real life, but for all that guy knew this girl could have had past experiences with abuse!

If it is understood between the two parties that he is going to be sleazy that is fine, but crossing the line for his own thrills in my opinion is just not on, and it is an abuse of trust that should exist between training partners.

On a serious note with that, it's proabably a good thing he exposed her to that. As a female, in the real world, a skilled opponent getting physically sleazy is something you certainly might encounter in your travels, and I have several times mysaelf in past several months myself. Even though for her it was in safe and controlled environment, if she takes stock and reflects on that, she'll likely get alot out of it. Better the devil you know right?

BL

 

[James Kovacich]

I would have to disagree with that, a Dojo should be a safe environment and if someone is trying to get a cheep feel it is unacceptable. Training for real life situations is one thing, we play games where two guys will try and tie our hands and feet and its all good fun but quite relevant to real life, but for all that guy knew this girl could have had past experiences with abuse!

If it is understood between the two parties that he is going to be sleazy that is fine, but crossing the line for his own thrills in my opinion is just not on, and it is an abuse of trust that should exist between training partners.

You're so right! The head instructor needs to be on top of that stuff. I don't don't like men pairing up with little boys either. It's one thing when everyone knows each other well but differant when they are not friends. Standup is OK but grappling, the kids need to be protected.

 

[TigerWoman]

On a serious note with that, it's proabably a good thing he exposed her to that. As a female, in the real world, a skilled opponent getting physically sleazy is something you certainly might encounter in your travels, and I have several times mysaelf in past several months myself. Even though for her it was in safe and controlled environment, if she takes stock and reflects on that, she'll likely get alot out of it. Better the devil you know right?

BL

I disagree with that too. One too many slips and the knee or foot or hand would "accidently" go to his groin in not a friendly way if that happened to me. But some women would feel betrayed in a supposedly friendly environment, leave, and not look back. And there is a wide mix of women in-between too, but there would be a guaranteed reaction. The dojang is not the place for a convenient feel. TW

 

[yariman]

Some are uncomfortable with it. Some are jelous when their partner embrases someone that way in training.

Some people take advantage and feel more than they should.

But, for those who are smaller, it can help build confidence and allow safe discovery of what is and is not doable for them.

 

[Lisa]

Some guy I know at the place I roll at was going through a grappling drill in class last month. His partner was a female and the whole time I could tell he was trying hard to place and slip his hands and arms into very "convenient" and intimate locations... It was kind of sick but it was also pretty funny. I asked him about it later and he completely denied it. I guess some people can't handle working with the opposite sex.

Okay, how exactly is that funny? It was stupid and absolutely appalling, plain and simple and hopefully she went the the instructor and had his *** removed from the school. :btg:

On a serious note with that, it's proabably a good thing he exposed her to that. As a female, in the real world, a skilled opponent getting physically sleazy is something you certainly might encounter in your travels, and I have several times mysaelf in past several months myself. Even though for her it was in safe and controlled environment, if she takes stock and reflects on that, she'll likely get alot out of it. Better the devil you know right?

Huh? Exposing her to that without her consent even on the mat is just as much a crime as someone doing it on in the street. Copping a feel beit on a bus, train or in the dojo does no female student any good and should not be tolerated by the school. Here is the thing... they weren't training for a "real life situation" they were simply rolling. It leaves the victem wondering what the hell they did to deserve it and causes internal turmoil. Take stock and reflect? The only thing that student should take stock and reflect upon is her foot connecting to his groin and the shades of purple that jerk turned.

nuff said, rant over.

 

[Sarah]

That was well said Nalia, this subject can be a little close to home for a lot of woman, if we can not feel safe training in our Dojo where can we feel safe.....it has been said be a lot that when we are rolling we are both MA'ist training together not male or female.

I am totally fine when my training partners grab me in an awkward place because I know it is not meant as anything sexual and I trust them.....we should not be put in a situation where we are always aware of how often our partners hands are slipping in our Gi....that is no way to learn, all it will do is make us more self conscious not better grapplers.

Okay, how exactly is that funny? It was stupid and absolutely appalling, plain and simple and hopefully she went the the instructor and had his *** removed from the school. :btg:


Huh? Exposing her to that without her consent even on the mat is just as much a crime as someone doing it on in the street. Copping a feel beit on a bus, train or in the dojo does no female student any good and should not be tolerated by the school. Here is the thing... they weren't training for a "real life situation" they were simply rolling. It leaves the victem wondering what the hell they did to deserve it and causes internal turmoil. Take stock and reflect? The only thing that student should take stock and reflect upon is her foot connecting to his groin and the shades of purple that jerk turned.

nuff said, rant over.

 

[Blooming Lotus]

Of course it should be safe, but fact is that it wasn't. Inappropriate is inappropriate and uninvited physically sexual contact is exactly that. And meet it in the kwoon, at work or what have you, it is what it is. Thankfully the environment here was somewhat protected and while we're learning techniques for defence, well there's something to apply them to if anything is worthy of these types of skills. If she was caught off guard, and didn't have enough skill to fend it off, that's just something to learn to protect against in future. Being caught off guard is a bugger! Things happen and as much I don't condone his actions, (and I'm sorry kids) , but you can sit around crying about it, or you can be proactive in your safety and make sure next time you encounter it, you know how to best handle it. I have had alot of experience like this, and teach my daughter for this exact reason. It is part of our world and I am often off travelling by myself, but if I hadn't considered it earlier ( afdter meeting on it a lesser scale earlier) , as soon as awareness of need presented itself, who knows how the more serious situations later would have turned out?? It's something women should consider and as a mommy, a sister , and a woman and so forth, I stand by that comment emphatically. Don't get sad, get prepared for next time ( and then hope nxt time doesn't come).

Blooming Lotus

 

[TigerWoman]

Of course it should be safe, but fact is that it wasn't. Inappropriate is inappropriate and uninvited physically sexual contact is exactly that. And meet it in the kwoon, at work or what have you, it is what it is. Thankfully the environment here was somewhat protected and while we're learning techniques for defence, well there's something to apply them to if anything is worthy of these types of skills. If she was caught off guard, and didn't have enough skill to fend it off, that's just something to learn to protect against in future.
Blooming Lotus

We're not kids, nor yours. The point is that this is NOT the normal environment but a controlled one. If the instructor has condoned it and said that okay some of the women are going to get felt up today what would have happened? The women trusted the instructor and the students to be trustworthy or the class/learning wouldn't have happened. This is not a attack to learn against. It is a failure of trust. I previously stated my response to such an action. And the guy's fanny should have been booted out the door as well. No future about it. TW

 

[Blooming Lotus]

I don't think you realise that I'm actually agreeing with you here, but next time could be anywhere at all. There are many kids on these boards Tigerwoman, and that is who I addressed that to. I'm talking about actions we can take ourselves.


BL

 

[TigerWoman]

I don't think you realise that I'm actually agreeing with you here, but next time could be anywhere at all. There are many kids on these boards Tigerwoman, and that is who I addressed that to. I'm talking about actions we can take ourselves.

BL

Actually we were talking about a woman being inappropriately touched while grappling by a fellow man student and women that disagreed with your post. This, I repeat is not about self defense. And its certainly not a benefit of co-ed grappling so we should let others get on with the topic.TW

 

[getgoin]

I haven't been grappling that long, only a few of years. In that time I have been touched and been in positions that would be very degrading if not in the context of grappling. The acts of a person choosing to behave in that manner are grounds for dismissal, I agree with that. Matter of fact I would be the first one to take himout back to the shed and teach him the finer points of being a man.

I'm not trying to get off topic or anything else but I have a question, totally fiction, no real people were harmed during writing. Now seeing that there is alot of personal contact within the grappling game, it must be made sure that the person is actually acting badly. Not just one persons preception of what took place, whether it be a spectator or a player. A new female student comes to her male instructor while in the office and say's that "he stuck his hand through my thighs and grabbed the back of my leg, I feel that I was violated" now that instructor has to make a decision. He wasn't there to see it happen, the phone rang and he went to answer it. He tells her to wait in his office and he will find out what went on. People in the class say they (men and women) were watching and nothing happened. Does the male teacher tell her she's mistaken, she wasn't violated or kick the guy out of school? Is she being hypersensitive or have the other members of the school been numbed to the touch?

 

[MJS]

Accidental contact is one thing, but intentional is wrong and should be addressed by the inst. Considering that we live in a sue happy world, if is not addressed, it could mean the difference between the school doors staying open or being shut.

Grappling is a very close contact activity, so again, accidents happen, but it appears this was not an accident.

Mike

 

[Lisa]

Actually we were talking about a woman being inappropriately touched while grappling by a fellow man student and women that disagreed with your post. This, I repeat is not about self defense. And its certainly not a benefit of co-ed grappling so we should let others get on with the topic.TW

Well said TW. :asian:

 

[peligro1]

Getgoin, I don't think she was violated intentionally. It sounds like her partner was just trying to get a good grip, not a cheap feel. Grappling involves close personal contact (someone else's sweat dripping down onto you, placing someone's arm near your groin, etc.) and at times you may be uncomfortable. That's just part of the game.

 

[OUMoose]

In the past, I have freerolled with many female students. I'm a pretty big guy, and I've actually been approached more than once to freeroll with them, so they can see what it's like. As others have stated, though, it's a matter of trust. We were all friends, and they knew I wasn't going to attempt to take advantage of them or anything. Heck, I've been tapped out on a couple of occasions by ladies 1/2 my size. We had a chuckle about it and both learned something.

 

[Shizen Shigoku]

I checked out a self-defense course at my university, and for one of the techniques I was paired with a female. The attack was a torso grab from behind (bear hug type, pinning the arms to the body). This female was quite well-endowed, so I was nervous about 'getting too close for comfort' - I didn't want to appear sleazy - but she was so big in that area, that it would be hard not to touch them.

So, anyway, trying to be P.C. (which I'm normally against), I grabbed her high around the upper chest and shoulders. She got irritated and said, "That is not realistic, you're going to have to grab me lower," then *she* took my hands and placed them squarely (or rather roundly) on her bosom, and told me to squeeze tightly.

It was a benefit for me for obvious reasons but it was also a benefit for her - she had enough sense to know that if she is going to practice proper technique, there has to be a proper attack to respond to.

Intimate contact really is unavoidable in a grappling situation, but I agree that - just to make everyone more comfortable - there has to be trust and consent involved.

 

[James Kovacich]

I checked out a self-defense course at my university, and for one of the techniques I was paired with a female. The attack was a torso grab from behind (bear hug type, pinning the arms to the body). This female was quite well-endowed, so I was nervous about 'getting too close for comfort' - I didn't want to appear sleazy - but she was so big in that area, that it would be hard not to touch them.

So, anyway, trying to be P.C. (which I'm normally against), I grabbed her high around the upper chest and shoulders. She got irritated and said, "That is not realistic, you're going to have to grab me lower," then *she* took my hands and placed them squarely (or rather roundly) on her bosom, and told me to squeeze tightly.

It was a benefit for me for obvious reasons but it was also a benefit for her - she had enough sense to know that if she is going to practice proper technique, there has to be a proper attack to respond to.

Intimate contact really is unavoidable in a grappling situation, but I agree that - just to make everyone more comfortable - there has to be trust and consent involved.

I think that she may have been "that 1 in a million" that would actually di that. But ground grappling is a much more closer game that puts 2 bodies in positions that for some can and will be uncomfortable.

As to asnswering (GET GOINS question) what an instructor should do if nobody saw anything. I think he needs to watch much more attentively and not let things like that happen.

 

[Sarah]

I think most of us would agree that trust between training partners is really important. That is why I would choose to roll with Senior Men over the lower ranks, like someone has already said most of them dont act like they have anything to prove, where as younger and lower ranked guys often still have a lot of ego coming in to it.....of course this is just from my experience.

The best roll's I have had have been with BB Men and my regular partner Raewyn whom I trust immensely. I think it is interesting to note that I get grabbed more by Raewyn than I do by the BB guys, its more that we are inexperienced and a little bit clumsy.