Then Refrain from Generalizing
I'm not supposed to respond based on my own perspective? Have you seen the number of women who dropped out of sports in their teens? Clearly a lot of women agree that in sports, winning isn't important.
Winning - Important or Irrelevant?
- Thread starter Champ-Pain
- Start date
- Status
I'm not supposed to respond based on my own perspective? Have you seen the number of women who dropped out of sports in their teens? Clearly a lot of women agree that in sports, winning isn't important.
Generalising is basing that A: You Countered me Referring to Professional Sports; And B: That it was Subject to Womens Sports without Specifying as such until after.
Your Perspective is fine. But remember that only You know the Context in which you say something.
OKenpo942
Purple Belt
I too am super competitive. to the point where it is a fault in some areas . However, I feel that it is my competitiveness that has gotten me to where I am today. I have accomplished many goals and achieved certain levels of skill because of my competitiveness. I also feel that because of others' will to be victorious or to be the best, I have had to push myself even more. I may never be THE best in an area, but because I strive to be, I can be the best that I can be. I think that is the most important thing. BE YOUR BEST.
I love the saying, "you are only as strong as your weakest link". I'll be damned if I am the weakest link. If every link strives to be the strongest or best, the weakest will at the very least be THEIR best.
Winning may not be the most important thing, but I believe that doing everything you can in order to be victorious is.If that makes sense.:ultracool
I love the saying, "you are only as strong as your weakest link". I'll be damned if I am the weakest link. If every link strives to be the strongest or best, the weakest will at the very least be THEIR best.
Winning may not be the most important thing, but I believe that doing everything you can in order to be victorious is.If that makes sense.:ultracool
Nomad
Master Black Belt
It's also interesting to me that this attitude of the all-importance of winning is not prevalent in many sports. Very few people (ok, maybe some Kenyans) start training for a marathon or a triathlon thinking they're going to win it, nor is that the point of the training or performing in these type of events at all. Instead, these competitions really stress the goal of self-improvement... you run your first marathon to prove to yourself that you can. Subsequent events are often run to try to improve your personal time. How everyone else does is fairly irrelevant to the vast majority of the people competing.
Elite runners who have a good chance at winning marathons rarely take the time to trash-talk their opponents either, for what it's worth.
I think many people approach their martial arts in a similar manner, where the emphasis is on self-improvement rather than number of victories.
Elite runners who have a good chance at winning marathons rarely take the time to trash-talk their opponents either, for what it's worth.
I think many people approach their martial arts in a similar manner, where the emphasis is on self-improvement rather than number of victories.
OP
Champ-Pain
Blue Belt
- Thread Starter
- #65
Maybe runners don't trash talk - but just about every top athlete in sports that I'm interested in viewing, do it... in football, basketball, baseball, hockey, soccer, boxing, MMA, UFC, etc. Most brag, many trash talk - it's part of the game - to create interest and bigger audiences on PPV.
BTW: Does Zola Bud and Mary Decker bring back any memories? Lots of trash talking before and after the Olympic race took place... a race that neither of the two won.
In M/A - amateur or pro - winning is important... perhaps more so than in other sports. You win, you get to fight in bigger events, make money, get ads & commercials, become a movie star, etc, etc.
Im just going to Off Topically Praise that you Specified it as being MA in their Amateur or Professional Variety, rather than Generalizing MA like Sports altogether.
Blade96
Senior Master
I believe that competition is more relevant than winning, because competition drives human civilization to get ahead and progress. Winning is a result of competing and progressing. Its the competition that is the important one. and part of that is that people like to feel important. Look up dale carnegie. he writes about it too.
[/quote=jc]I just want to make an observation - Some of the BEST / GREATEST athletes in their individual sport - were all very competitive, very confident, and in many cases, they bragged... Muhamad Ali, Mike Tyson, $Money$ Maywheather, Roberto Duran, Brock Lesner, John Mcenroe, BJ Penn - Hell - most UFC fighters do it, even the not so good ones and many, many others. None of them ever said that "winning is not important" or "irrelevant". On the contrary, to most of them, it was the only thing.[/QUOTE]
Sean Avery has talent. Maybe if he spent more time actually playing his sport and less time trash talking, being a douche, and talking about sloppy seconds (look it up), he would show it more. Trash talking can hurt you, not make you better.
And some great leaders don't even brag at all about good at sports and winning championships. They don't have to. Like Steve Yzerman. He doesn't brag. Nobody likes a bragger. Its cocky. Its arrogant.
I like to compete. When I get a medal, I feel happy yes. But my reason for entering was to show people I overcame my balance problem. (Progression of people's thinking) And I did that. That's what competition is all about.
I STILL hate Zola Bud and I can't even blame her for what happened, but I'm still gonna hate her.
OP
Champ-Pain
Blue Belt
- Thread Starter
- #69
Muhamad Ali was the BIGGEST bragger, most cocky & arrogant athlete that ever lived - yet he has always been one of the most beloved, popular and admired athlete, of all time, through out the whole world. just sayingNobody likes a bragger. Its cocky. Its arrogant.
On a different note: I spoke to my young students about this subject, and asked their opinion. Every single one of them (36) said winning is very important to them. Many of them laughed at me - when I presented them with the opposite scenario (irrelevant) - almost to the point of ridicule, for having done so. These are all children between 5 and 8 y/o.
Muhamad Ali was the BIGGEST bragger, most cocky & arrogant athlete that ever lived - yet he has always been one of the most beloved, popular and admired athlete, of all time, through out the whole world. just saying
On a different note: I spoke to my young students about this subject, and asked their opinion. Every single one of them (36) said winning is very important to them. Many of them laughed at me - when I presented them with the opposite scenario (irrelevant) - almost to the point of ridicule, for having done so. These are all children between 5 and 8 y/o.
That's not the reaction I've seen of my daughters soccer team. Is this regional? Or the parents that are choosing the class?
OP
Champ-Pain
Blue Belt
- Thread Starter
- #71
I went as far as to say that it's not about winning, it's about enjoying what you are doing and having fun at it. Their reply... How can you enjoy and have fun - if you don't win? I tend to agree.
They don't keep score at my daughter's soccer games. They are there to play with the ball.
This is were Generalizations come in again.
I.e., you should have said that to begin with. Noone is going to naturally assume your Daughters Soccer Games dont take Scores.
When you refer to a Soccer Team, you are referring to Soccer. Which is a Sport. What she is doing is a Recreational Variety.
Sport is a recreational activity.
Not Necessarily.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recreation
"Recreation is an activity of leisure, leisure being discretionary time.[SUP][1][/SUP] The "need to do something for recreation" is an essential element of human biology and psychology.[SUP][2][/SUP] Recreational activities are often done for enjoyment, amusement, or pleasure and are considered to be "fun". The term recreation implies participation to be healthy refreshing mind and body."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport
"Sport is all forms of physical activity which, through casual or organised participation, aim to use, maintain or improve physical fitness and provide entertainment to participants. Sport may be competitive, where a winner or winners can be identified by objective means, and may require a degree of skill, especially at higher levels. Hundreds of sports exist, including those for a single participant, through to those with hundreds of simultaneous participants, either in teams or competing as Some non-physical activities, such as board games and card gamesare sometimes referred to as sports, but a sport is generally recognised as being based in physical athleticism."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_sport
"A Combat sport, also known as a Fighting sport, is a competitive contact sport where two combatants fight against each other using certain rules of engagement (usually significantly different from the rules in simulated combats meant for practice or challenge in martial arts), typically with the aim of simulating parts of real hand to hand combat. Boxing, kickboxing, amateur wrestling, mixed martial arts, Muay Thai and fencing are examples of combat sports."
A few years after Mary Drecker and Zola Bud came one of the most memorable moments in Olympic track....and it wasn't from the guy who won. Derek Redmond popped his hamstring. He was done. He lost. Finito. Yet he tried desperately to limp around the track. Why? The medics were right there with a stretcher What inspired his dad to run out of the stands and help him around the track? Why was dad melting with pride?
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/espn25/story?page=moments/94
I don't think Dick and Rick Hoyt have ever won a marathon or a triathalon. Yet when the Boston Marathon brings them to downtown, the city explodes in cheers!
"Dad, when we run, it feels like I'm not handicapped." -- Rick Hoyt
So why do they do it? Why does the city even give a damn? Why do they keep going? At 70 years old, does Dick race because he wants to win?
http://www.teamhoyt.com/about/index.html
Winning is important for sport. The Boston Marathon wouldn't have anywhere near the prestige it does if no one ever timed the runners. The Bruins winning the Stanley Cup wouldn't be anywhere near as exciting for the spectators or players if it wasn't a hard fought season. The Olympics wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting if the competitors weren't trying for medals.
But the Olympics also have the athletes with the infectious grin. They placed 17th or someplace way out of medal contention yet they leave with a huge smile on their face because they KNOW they gave it their all. Its personal triumph. Its possible for personal triumph and winning to be one and the same, but not always required.
You missed my point.
Dont Worry, I didnt overlook your Point. But im sure No. 17 out of however many possble Dozens if not Hundreds, let alone getting INTO the Olympics at all is mighty glad as well ;D
- Status
