ballen0351
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who's talking about professional MMA fighters?
Wing Chun vs MMA
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ballen0351
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I don't know about penalties around the world. I know about penalties here. Penalties here are the same. And also tasers are legal her as well so anyone can have one. In fact civilian taser is worse then mine. I pull the trigger it runs for 5 seconds the civilian model runs for 60 seconds
drop bear
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I keep finding these laws about assaulting a police officer though.
"Assaulting a police officer" may not mean what you think
ballen0351
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That's great laws are different everywhere. I'm telling you in this state where I work and live there is no enhanced punishment for fighting police. In fact I had a judge once say on court that being assaulted is in my job description and give a guy probation for assaulting 3 of us
Steve
Mostly Harmless
given what the judge said, are you still suggesting that your experience as a cop bears any resemblance to anything a non cop might encounter? You're literally making my point for me.
ballen0351
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sure the assault itself was the same regardless of the clothes I'm wearing. The outcome in a court of law is unrelated to self defense
Steve
Mostly Harmless
ballen0351
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And? Does that makes the assault not an assault? At the time of the attack goal #1 is to defend yourself and stop the attack. Just like if you were attacked.And isn't assaulting a police officer generally hand in hand with resisting
Steve
Mostly Harmless
When you can arrest the guy who's assaulting you, yeah, is not the same thing.
ballen0351
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So can you. Elder just told a story on another thread about detaining someone until the police arrive
Guys, not to barge in but it does not matter if you are a cop or not.
If someone attacks you and threatens your life, it is self defense to protect yourself. Cops do it. Average Joe does it.
The difference is in how you can train for it to improve your odds. A cop can not train the same way an average bar attender or a regular guy/girl just wanting to feel safe. They do not share goals nor intent with self defense, but that does not mean the term self defense dont apply in both cases.
Heck, self defense in the army would also be something completely different and quite a bit more mortal.
If someone attacks you and threatens your life, it is self defense to protect yourself. Cops do it. Average Joe does it.
The difference is in how you can train for it to improve your odds. A cop can not train the same way an average bar attender or a regular guy/girl just wanting to feel safe. They do not share goals nor intent with self defense, but that does not mean the term self defense dont apply in both cases.
Heck, self defense in the army would also be something completely different and quite a bit more mortal.
lklawson
Grandmaster
Why Military and Law Enforcement firearms force training may not be optimal for Joe Citizen "Self Defense."
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
lklawson
Grandmaster
It matters a great deal more than you seem to realize. The situations are different and the goals are different.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
So MMA can tell us a lot about fighting, but there are significant differences between MMA fighting scenarios and self defense fighting scenarios, so we should keep that in mind when trying to draw conclusions about self defense from MMA fighting. Law enforcement can tell us a lot about self defense, but there are significant differences between the scenarios in which law enforcement must defend themselves and most of the scenarios in which everyday citizens must defend themselves, so we should keep that in mind when trying to draw conclusions about civilian self defense from law enforcement.
MMA involves fighting, but not self defense fighting.
Law enforcement involves self defense, but not civilian self defense.
Law enforcement has more tools and resources at its disposal than civilians have access to. In an MMA fight you have more tools and resources at your disposal (a mat, a ref, breaks, rules and, most importantly, the time to study your opponent and their style) than you will have access to in a real fight.
There are similarities and differences between law enforcement and civilian self defense and there are similarities and differences between MMA fighting and self defense fighting. In the end, the situations and goals have similarities, but are still different.
Both can provide valuable information. Neither is the be-all-end-all measure of a style or a technique's effectiveness in self defense.
MMA involves fighting, but not self defense fighting.
Law enforcement involves self defense, but not civilian self defense.
Law enforcement has more tools and resources at its disposal than civilians have access to. In an MMA fight you have more tools and resources at your disposal (a mat, a ref, breaks, rules and, most importantly, the time to study your opponent and their style) than you will have access to in a real fight.
There are similarities and differences between law enforcement and civilian self defense and there are similarities and differences between MMA fighting and self defense fighting. In the end, the situations and goals have similarities, but are still different.
Both can provide valuable information. Neither is the be-all-end-all measure of a style or a technique's effectiveness in self defense.
Actually in terms of meaning of the wording "Self defense" it does not matter. The wording simply states defending yourself and can be done on many levels.
Situations may be different but noone can argue that a cop never has to defend himself. As if he was never to be threatened?
Same thing applies to a hospital worker, just different situation, different scenario and different solutions. All use self defense, all use it differently.
Even two people with same job, same country of origin, same language, same everything. Being attacked by same guy, will utilize different solutions in terms of self defense. It is all individual if you simply add enough details to look at. No scenario is identical to another.
Hanzou
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MMA fighting has a great deal of spillover into self defense fighting.
lklawson
Grandmaster
LEO are civilians in the U.S. ...unless the Posse Comitatus Act has suddenly disappeared.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
lklawson
Grandmaster
Not quite. The situations and goals of LEO are different from non-LEO civilian self defense.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
It just depends on how the word "civilian" is being defined. LEO are civilians in the U.S. in the sense that they are not part of the military, of course, but that is not what I intended by the word "civilian." I was thinking more along the lines of a civilian being a person who is not a member of the military or of the police force. If the wording issue is a stumbling block to the conversation and another word would keep that from happening, then I'm open to adopting that instead. The last thing that I want to do is to introduce a semantic argument to this thread.
lklawson
Grandmaster
But that's what the word means. In fact, it's pretty common for "people in power" to write of and discuss "the civilian police force." I know that it seems nit-picky to you but it's a very important thing. The more and more that we culturally lump LEO together with military, including by segregating them conceptually from "civilians," the more we culturally give tacit acceptance to the militarization of the civilian police force.
It's important.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
