Wing Chun and mma.

[Martial D]

Which WC principles and concepts are you finding most useful?

Center control, slick outside gate entries, attacking on the parry or slip, centerline control from guard, etc

 

[macher]

So last night a competitive judo BB walks into our club. None of our guys have judo so it was an experience. We learned several new throws, and also new ways to land on my head.

Good times.

Yeah. As per the original mission, my WC has boiled down to mostly principles and concepts. It's better than it's ever been even if it's less recognizable to traditional WC guys.

It's funny that a few short months ago I argued that guys like Keith what's his name and that other guy that trains MMA with WC concepts weren't doing WC, while now I see that sort of approach as the best WC for practical application.

When I trained with my Bagua teacher years ago that’s exactly how he taught it, concepts. There are concepts behind the form and that’s what he would focus on.

I believe with CMA that’s how it should be taught of you want to learn self defense.

 

[DaveB]

So last night a competitive judo BB walks into our club. None of our guys have judo so it was an experience. We learned several new throws, and also new ways to land on my head.

Good times.

Yeah. As per the original mission, my WC has boiled down to mostly principles and concepts. It's better than it's ever been even if it's less recognizable to traditional WC guys.

It's funny that a few short months ago I argued that guys like Keith what's his name and that other guy that trains MMA with WC concepts weren't doing WC, while now I see that sort of approach as the best WC for practical application.

Congratulations, your conversion to the dark side is almost complete.

You have discarded the superficial shell of the form and have tasted the hidden depths of,*dramatic pause* The Principles!

Soon your every movement, your every breath will be Wing Chun and your memories of any other idea of the system will be a distant echo.

Let the Chun flow through you...

 

[macher]

Here’s an interesting video about Wing Chun has to change with the times like technology does. He calls it impulse momentum.

 

[KPM]

Hendrik has put out TONS of videos. Most of them are about an hour long of him rambling on and on with no demonstration of what he is talking about. I haven't watched these because I gave up on trying to watch his videos long ago. The talks in modern terms, but what he does is still "old school" Wing Chun. So he hasn't really "modernized" anything other than the terminology. Trying to understand "traditional" things with "modern" concepts is good! But his presentations are often mind-numbing to get to the part that really means anything. He has written a couple of books that may be easier to follow than his videos. But he wants an high price for his books!

 

[macher]

Hendrik has put out TONS of videos. Most of them are about an hour long of him rambling on and on with no demonstration of what he is talking about. I haven't watched these because I gave up on trying to watch his videos long ago. The talks in modern terms, but what he does is still "old school" Wing Chun. So he hasn't really "modernized" anything other than the terminology. Trying to understand "traditional" things with "modern" concepts is good! But his presentations are often mind-numbing to get to the part that really means anything. He has written a couple of books that may be easier to follow than his videos. But he wants an high price for his books!

The videos I watched he was talking about getting into short range since WC is a short striking art. His stance and means wasn’t ‘traditional’.

I agree he does ramble.

 

[DanT]

In the end, all you need are a couple of punches and kicks, some throws and submissions, be in excellent shape, and be courageous, and you'll be fine. Oftentimes, Martial Arts over complicate things.

 

[TMA17]

In the end, all you need are a couple of punches and kicks, some throws and submissions, be in excellent shape, and be courageous, and you'll be fine. Oftentimes, Martial Arts over complicate things.

I couldn't agree more. If you keep it simple, and perfect a few things that will go a long way. In sport competition, you obviously need more because you're training against other skilled opponents. At that level it becomes a skill game.

 

[Martial D]

gah, I think I fractured a rib Monday. Training paused.

 

[drop bear]

gah, I think I fractured a rib Monday. Training paused.

Does happen. I got eye gouged today. Joys of injuries.

 

[KPM]

I couldn't agree more. If you keep it simple, and perfect a few things that will go a long way. In sport competition, you obviously need more because you're training against other skilled opponents. At that level it becomes a skill game.

I think this was very likely true of TCMA as well. The guys that were good fighters were likely the guys that were VERY good using the fundamentals that were the foundation of their system, and using them in multiple ways. These fundamentals tend to get repeated through-out the forms of the system. Seldom would you see any "advanced" techniques unless the situation was just right.

 

[macher]

I think this was very likely true of TCMA as well. The guys that were good fighters were likely the guys that were VERY good using the fundamentals that were the foundation of their system, and using them in multiple ways. These fundamentals tend to get repeated through-out the forms of the system. Seldom would you see any "advanced" techniques unless the situation was just right.

For self defense all you really need are the basics. Learn to evade punches(slipping, parry, blocking etc) and learn how to defend against a takedown and / or basic ground fighting if you happen to get on the ground.

Problem I see in TCMA is lack of resistance training.

 

[Martial D]

For self defense all you really need are the basics. Learn to evade punches(slipping, parry, blocking etc) and learn how to defend against a takedown and / or basic ground fighting if you happen to get on the ground.

Problem I see in TCMA is lack of resistance training.

It's a trade off...the training thing I mean. The more realism based the training is, the higher the risk to the body in training.

..I didn't see too many chi sau or lap sau drill related injuries during my Wing Chun training days.

 

[Danny T]

Here’s an interesting video about Wing Chun has to change with the times like technology does. He calls it impulse momentum.

Watched the first video but not the 2nd.
My but he talks for the sake of talking.
Impulse Momentum...Force applied over a period of time. And just what was all that talk about? Contact under pressure. Nothing new training wise, nothing different, no new technology only new is his terminology.

 

[macher]

Watched the first video but not the 2nd.
My but he talks for the sake of talking.
Impulse Momentum...Force applied over a period of time. And just what was all that talk about? Contact under pressure. Nothing new training wise, nothing different, no new technology only new is his terminology.

Yea he’s rambles too much but has some good points. For instance with Fa Jin. There are people will say that if Fa Jin isn’t in your Taiji then your not practicing Tai Chi. I agree that Fa Jin is the eventual goal but you can learn Taiji to be applicable without Fa Jin. How? By impulse momentum. A point that I got from him was the current state of Fa Jin is BS. In one of his videos he mentioned the Taiji master against the MMA guy. How the MMA guy one was impulse momentum. Didn’t matter the Taiji master had all this Fa Jin. Fa Jin is the icing on the cake.

 

[Danny T]

Yea he’s rambles too much but has some good points. For instance with Fa Jin. There are people will say that if Fa Jin isn’t in your Taiji then your not practicing Tai Chi. I agree that Fa Jin is the eventual goal but you can learn Taiji to be applicable without Fa Jin. How? By impulse momentum. A point that I got from him was the current state of Fa Jin is BS. In one of his videos he mentioned the Taiji master against the MMA guy. How the MMA guy one was impulse momentum. Didn’t matter the Taiji master had all this Fa Jin. Fa Jin is the icing on the cake.

Fa Jin is the ability to create force force. Impulse Momentum is actually applying force over a period of time.
Current state of Fa Jin isn't BS. What is BS is saying you can create force without doing so but saying you did.

 

[macher]

Fa Jin is the ability to create force force. Impulse Momentum is actually applying force over a period of time.
Current state of Fa Jin isn't BS. What is BS is saying you can create force without doing so but saying you did.

You still need a period of time to initiate a Fa Jin strike though. You still space.