Why You (Probably) Should Not Carry A Weapon

[Wing Woo Gar]

I've been shot at and stabbed. Decades ago, in the Corps. That's not going to happen now. And I think that's true for the majority of us.

An hour from my house is an hour from my house. I'm fine. No riots here. No riots will happen here. And even where the riots happened, they were simple enough to avoid. Those involved chose to be there.

Weapons have to be defended. I want both my hands free. The world isn't that dangerous for me that I need a gun, knife, pepper spray, pocket sand or whatever.

Well what about when the aliens/Russians/zombies/republicans/democrats come to get you…?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

as a practical matter, the most imminent danger to me are idiots with guns.

And driving near SeaTac airport area.

 

[drop bear]

I’ve never met a gun owner who accidentally shot anyone and I live in Texas. 38 years

secondly I rather idiots have guns then criminals being allowed to harm me and my family.

I prefer criminals. They are less random.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I’ve never met a gun owner who accidentally shot anyone and I live in Texas. 38 years

secondly I rather idiots have guns then criminals being allowed to harm me and my family

So it looks like you've read the other statements in this thread, but I'm assuming you missed my clarification question.

Do you not understand people's issues with people carrying guns as in you don't understand as in you know their reasoning but you disagree, or as in you literally don't know/understand what their reasoning is?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I’ve never met a gun owner who accidentally shot anyone and I live in Texas. 38 years

secondly I rather idiots have guns then criminals being allowed to harm me and my family

Have you met many criminals that have tried to harm you and your family? Don't live in texas, so not sure what the situation is.

I also don't put much faith in anecdotal experiences, but if we are: I've met two people who have been accidentally shot by guns. One in the leg, he can no longer train because of it. The other by an off duty police officer, in the head. Has permanent brain damage and an ongoing lawsuit with the state going on 15 years.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I’ve never met a gun owner who accidentally shot anyone and I live in Texas. 38 years

secondly I rather idiots have guns then criminals being allowed to harm me and my family

Case in point. You don't know the difference between quantitative statistics and anecdotal evidence. I've never known anyone killed by a wild animal, so that proves it doesn't happen.

Further, you engage in logical fallacy to argue your point by presenting a false either/or scenario. Either you have idiots with guns OR criminals will harm you. It is entirely possible that you could have both or neither happen, so your statement is false.

When people cannot judge risk logically and dispassionately, they make decisions that are suboptimal.

In any case, you asked a question and I answered it. I suspected you weren't interested in my answer but rather wanted to grind your agenda, and here we are.

 

[Mider]

Case in point. You don't know the difference between quantitative statistics and anecdotal evidence. I've never known anyone killed by a wild animal, so that proves it doesn't happen.

Further, you engage in logical fallacy to argue your point by presenting a false either/or scenario. Either you have idiots with guns OR criminals will harm you. It is entirely possible that you could have both or neither happen, so your statement is false.

When people cannot judge risk logically and dispassionately, they make decisions that are suboptimal.

In any case, you asked a question and I answered it. I suspected you weren't interested in my answer but rather wanted to grind your agenda, and here we are.

kk, I’m still not going to agree with you. You basically admitted to using your own felicitous logic by saying because it happened near you everyone with a gun must act the same.

 

[Mider]

Have you met many criminals that have tried to harm you and your family? Don't live in texas, so not sure what the situation is.

I also don't put much faith in anecdotal experiences, but if we are: I've met two people who have been accidentally shot by guns. One in the leg, he can no longer train because of it. The other by an off duty police officer, in the head. Has permanent brain damage and an ongoing lawsuit with the state going on 15 years.

my neighbor had their home invaded, there’s one, another was brutally assaulted. We have druggies near here so the threat exists.

you don’t put faith in anecdotal experience then go on to say you don’t live in Texas…okkkkk

Ok, so? There’s over 350 million people in the USA, because a few were harmed by guns, in your case 2 we should suddenly force the other millions to disarm?

 

[Mider]

I prefer criminals. They are less random.

Huh

 

[Steve]

kk, I’m still not going to agree with you. You basically admitted to using your own felicitous logic by saying because it happened near you everyone with a gun must act the same.

This made me smile. I agree that @Bill Mattocks’ logic is felicitous.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

my neighbor had their home invaded, there’s one, another was brutally assaulted. We have druggies near here so the threat exists.

you don’t put faith in anecdotal experience then go on to say you don’t live in Texas…okkkkk

Ok, so? There’s over 350 million people in the USA, because a few were harmed by guns, in your case 2 we should suddenly force the other millions to disarm?

I think you missed my point. You stated after 38 years in texas you don't have any anecdotal experiences supporting the claim you disagree with. I pointed out that we shouldn't go by anecdotal experience, using the fact that my anecdotal experience and yours would lead to opposite conclusions as an explanation. I also don't see what living in Texas has to do with it, unless you think texas is the only place with guns.

I also was not saying if we should or should not force people to disarm. This thread in general is not actually about Bill saying people shouldn't be allowed to have guns, just his recommendation for most people. Making the claim that people should or shouldn't be allowed to own guns legally is politics and not allowed on this forum.

 

[Mider]

I think you missed my point. You stated after 38 years in texas you don't have any anecdotal experiences supporting the claim you disagree with. I pointed out that we shouldn't go by anecdotal experience, using the fact that my anecdotal experience and yours would lead to opposite conclusions as an explanation. I also don't see what living in Texas has to do with it, unless you think texas is the only place with guns.

I also was not saying if we should or should not force people to disarm. This thread in general is not actually about Bill saying people shouldn't be allowed to have guns, just his recommendation for most people. Making the claim that people should or shouldn't be allowed to own guns legally is politics and not allowed on this forum.

My post was, i don’t understand why anyone thinks others shouldn’t carry. You and others said because everyone’s an idiot and you don’t trust people

ok fine..I’m saying I’ve never met anyone who’s misused as gun. It’s not politics, I’m responding to the thread.

because I live in Texas, why would I talk about a place I don’t live, you’d just pick at that too.

no one said you thought everyone should be disarmed, I’m saying I don’t understand the logic.

Thats why these threads are pointless imo, they get no where. Im not gonna change your opinion and we just keep going round in round in bs

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Ok, so? There’s over 350 million people in the USA, because a few were harmed by guns, in your case 2 we should suddenly force the other millions to disarm?

Negative. We have a right to be armed, and I support that right. My *opinion* is that most people are booger-eatin' morons without sense enough to pour urine out of a boot with the instructions printed on the bottom, and that they ought not be armed because of that. My *opinion*, to which I am entitled. I can't change the fact that we have the absolute right to be armed (most of us) and I can't change the fact that idiots are running around with guns.

Having a right to be armed does not mean one *should* be armed. I have a right to juggle chainsaws, but it's a damned poor idea for me to do so.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

This made me smile. I agree that @Bill Mattocks’ logic is felicitous.

Absolutely the best post in the thread thus far.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

My post was, i don’t understand why anyone thinks others shouldn’t carry. You and others said because everyone’s an idiot and you don’t trust people

Are you getting me confused with someone else? I made no statements on whether or not people should carry. The only comments I made is about police training.

ok fine..I’m saying I’ve never met anyone who’s misused as gun. It’s not politics, I’m responding to the thread.

Yeah, and I offered an alternative viewpoint as I've met multiple people who have misused guns/been injured from others doing so.

because I live in Texas, why would I talk about a place I don’t live, you’d just pick at that too.

I didn't pick at you living in Texas. I reread and could have made that point clearer. I was actually confused why me not living in Texas was relevant.

no one said you thought everyone should be disarmed, I’m saying I don’t understand the logic.

Which was my first response to you to begin with. Do you not understand the logic, as in you don't understand the talking points on the opposite side of the fence as you? If so, you should go back to re-read the first post, or work on your reading comprehension. Being capable of, and putting in the effort to, understand the opposition is a key point to debating with them.

Thats why these threads are pointless imo, they get no where. Im not gonna change your opinion and we just keep going round in round in bs

Yeah that's kinda my view on our conversation here. Probably my last reply to you (in this thread).

 

[Mider]

Are you getting me confused with someone else? I made no statements on whether or not people should carry. The only comments I made is about police training.

Yeah, and I offered an alternative viewpoint as I've met multiple people who have misused guns/been injured from others doing so.

I didn't pick at you living in Texas. I reread and could have made that point clearer. I was actually confused why me not living in Texas was relevant.

Which was my first response to you to begin with. Do you not understand the logic, as in you don't understand the talking points on the opposite side of the fence as you? If so, you should go back to re-read the first post, or work on your reading comprehension. Being capable of, and putting in the effort to, understand the opposition is a key point to debating with them.

Yeah that's kinda my view on our conversation here. Probably my last reply to you (in this thread).

I honestly don’t care

 

[geezer]

Negative. We have a right to be armed, and I support that right. My *opinion* is that most people are booger-eatin' morons without sense enough to pour urine out of a boot with the instructions printed on the bottom, and that they ought not be armed because of that. My *opinion*, to which I am entitled. I can't change the fact that we have the absolute right to be armed (most of us) and I can't change the fact that idiots are running around with guns.

Having a right to be armed does not mean one *should* be armed. I have a right to juggle chainsaws, but it's a damned poor idea for me to do so.

There is so much wrong with this thread. First, morons who don't enjoy eating boogers shouldn't be walking around armed either.

Then, there's that thing about the boot. It may be true, but only because most of us don't bother to read the instructions. Otherwise, when you turn the boot over to read the instructions on the bottom, the urine pours right out by itself. Pretty slick if you ask me!

Seriously, what really gets me is that after you made your initial point so clearly, we get pages and pages of circular debates that are more about things like the right to bear arms than the important question you brought up, which is whether most of us really should be walking around armed to the teeth to begin with.

While we were talking about judgement and wisdom, IMO a lot of other folks got totally off in the weeds.

To use another example, my 98 year old dad, still has a valid driver's license and a car. But he made a conscious, personal decision to entirely stop driving ...and snow skiing ...a few years ago. And he gave his guns to my older brother. His wife, who is younger, drives for him now.

Actually the old guy is still pretty sharp, but the proof is that he knows and accepts his limitations. Most of us don't.

 

[Mider]

Are you getting me confused with someone else? I made no statements on whether or not people should carry. The only comments I made is about police training.

Yeah, and I offered an alternative viewpoint as I've met multiple people who have misused guns/been injured from others doing so.

I didn't pick at you living in Texas. I reread and could have made that point clearer. I was actually confused why me not living in Texas was relevant.

Which was my first response to you to begin with. Do you not understand the logic, as in you don't understand the talking points on the opposite side of the fence as you? If so, you should go back to re-read the first post, or work on your reading comprehension. Being capable of, and putting in the effort to, understand the opposition is a key point to debating with them.

Yeah that's kinda my view on our conversation here. Probably my last reply to you (in this thread).

I’m sorry 8f I offended you but it’s true, I don’t care….

these type of threads are full yet if someone asks about actual martial arts…crickets

my point is I don’t feel people’s opinion on threads, Twitter, Facebook etc has any baring on my life. You’ll keep your opinion and I’ll keep mine. You’ll think you're right and I’ll see myself as right, in the end what difference does it make?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I’m sorry 8f I offended you but it’s true, I don’t care….

You didn't. But also, if you don't care that means you're not sorry, just fyi.

these type of threads are full yet if someone asks about actual martial arts…crickets

my point is I don’t feel people’s opinion on threads, Twitter, Facebook etc has any baring on my life. You’ll keep your opinion and I’ll keep mine. You’ll think you're right and I’ll see myself as right, in the end what difference does it make?

I didn't mention my opinion anywhere, I was just trying to figure out if you actually didn't understand the opposing side, or if you had failed to read, and I've got my answer through your posts.

And I've actually had my opinion swayed multiple times on different things as a result of what people have said on this site. But if you're someone who's unwilling to see/understand the other viewpoint, then yes there likely won't be any changes of opinion, as you've closed off that option.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I’m sorry 8f I offended you but it’s true, I don’t care….

these type of threads are full yet if someone asks about actual martial arts…crickets

my point is I don’t feel people’s opinion on threads, Twitter, Facebook etc has any baring on my life. You’ll keep your opinion and I’ll keep mine. You’ll think you're right and I’ll see myself as right, in the end what difference does it make?

Then why participate in discussions?