Why You (Probably) Should Not Carry A Weapon

[Wing Woo Gar]

All of that makes sense. And you're right about the anecdotes, which is why I think the larger the data set, the more reliable the conclusions. In the various studies of officer involved shootings, some of them had 100% accuracy, but they only fired one shot that happened to hit. Similarly, some had 0% accuracy for the same reason. But in the aggregate, the numbers start to reveal something more reliable.

For a long time, finding any real data on guns was very difficult. The reasons for which could be perceived as political. So, I'll just leave it with I'm glad that over the last dozen or so years, we're starting to get some meaningful, statistical data that supports more objective analysis.

The reasons for lack of studies is a little known law. Quite a political piece in fact. Obscuring facts is its intent, I’m not a fan of that law or others similar to it.

 

[Hot Lunch]

I feel this could be an entirely complete topic itself. This is where some of the criticism comes into with gun disarms.

Something I've always wanted to see with these gun disarm demonstrations: it should be done in completely white clothing (a white gi is just fine) and a white ski mask. The gunman in the demonstration should have a squirt gun filled with red dye, and should actually be trying to squirt the person demonstrating the disarm. If he gets out of this with perfectly clean white clothing, then there's some legitimacy.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Something I've always wanted to see with these gun disarm demonstrations: it should be done in completely white clothing (a white gi is just fine) and a white ski mask. The gunman in the demonstration should have a squirt gun filled with red dye, and should actually be trying to squirt the person demonstrating the disarm. If he gets out of this with perfectly clean white clothing, then there's some legitimacy.

Heck, if they get out of it with lines (rather than spots), I’d pay attention.

 

[Instructor]

I have a CCP and I carry periodically when I feel it is a sensible thing to do for the situation I will be in. Don't know if I'm a dummy or not (how would I?). I suppose like most people I have made good choices and bad over the years. Not that this makes me more qualified to carry but I was an Air Force Security Police for four years which means I had to complete the Police Academy and responsibly open carried all that time.

I do carry when I hike, it's mainly an insurance policy. We do have bears here and venomous snakes but my main concern is hostile people which are far more common than aggressive wildlife.

While I've been in a few scraps (mainly in my teenage years). I have never once had to draw a weapon to defend myself and I've served all over the world.

But we live in chaotic times and rioting has become far too commonplace. Who knows. I would rather have my weapons and not need them than need them and not have them.

 

[Steve]

I have a CCP and I carry periodically when I feel it is a sensible thing to do for the situation I will be in. Don't know if I'm a dummy or not (how would I?). I suppose like most people I have made good choices and bad over the years. Not that this makes me more qualified to carry but I was an Air Force Security Police for four years which means I had to complete the Police Academy and responsibly open carried all that time.

I do carry when I hike, it's mainly an insurance policy. We do have bears here and venomous snakes but my main concern is hostile people which are far more common than aggressive wildlife.

While I've been in a few scraps (mainly in my teenage years). I have never once had to draw a weapon to defend myself and I've served all over the world.

But we live in chaotic times and rioting has become far too commonplace. Who knows. I would rather have my weapons and not need them than need them and not have them.

Complete tangent but when I was stationed in Germany I worked at a bomb dump called area 9. It was just 6 ammo troops and 2 SPs all day long. We got along really well with them and made sure to share the schwenkbraten and other goodies we’d cook at our frequent, good weather BBQs. and in return, they tolerated our idiotic shenanigans. Good memories.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

But we live in chaotic times and rioting has become far too commonplace. Who knows. I would rather have my weapons and not need them than need them and not have them.

If I lived in a place that was subject to riots or civil disorder, I'd reconsider my choice not to carry. Perhaps due to the privileges afforded me, I do not. There are no riots where I live and I do not believe there will be. I would be much more likely to face a kitchen grease fire, so I have a fire extinguisher in the kitchen. I have a weather radio. I know how to get out of my house if it fills with smoke and I'm crawling on my belly in the middle of the night. I know what a funnel cloud looks like. I keep my head on a swivel and avoid altercations. I keep my temper in check if I get cut off in traffic (that's taken a lot of work on my part). I don't use drugs or alcohol and I don't have to go into sketchy areas to buy drugs or bars to drink alcohol. These are the risks I believe I am most likely to face and that's my 'self-defense' if you will.

So to sum up, my judgment is that carrying guns and NEVER needing them is unnecessary liability for me. Probably for many people. Not saying it is that for everyone. I'm more likely to need jumper cables than a firearm.

 

[Instructor]

If I lived in a place that was subject to riots or civil disorder, I'd reconsider my choice not to carry. Perhaps due to the privileges afforded me, I do not. There are no riots where I live and I do not believe there will be. I would be much more likely to face a kitchen grease fire, so I have a fire extinguisher in the kitchen. I have a weather radio. I know how to get out of my house if it fills with smoke and I'm crawling on my belly in the middle of the night. I know what a funnel cloud looks like. I keep my head on a swivel and avoid altercations. I keep my temper in check if I get cut off in traffic (that's taken a lot of work on my part). I don't use drugs or alcohol and I don't have to go into sketchy areas to buy drugs or bars to drink alcohol. These are the risks I believe I am most likely to face and that's my 'self-defense' if you will.

So to sum up, my judgment is that carrying guns and NEVER needing them is unnecessary liability for me. Probably for many people. Not saying it is that for everyone. I'm more likely to need jumper cables than a firearm.

LOl I have a set of jumper cables too! Semper Paratus.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

LOl I have a set of jumper cables too! Semper Paratus.

It's like a couple of Facebook motorcycle/scooter groups I am a member of. People go on at great length about the tools they carry when they ride. Things to patch tubes and tires, inflators, road flares, reflectors, every kind of specialized tools and sockets and lubricant and if you've ever owned a motorbike I wonder where they keep it all. "I never ride without my red loctite and torque wrench!" Note that they won't wear a helmet or riding gear...so yeah on the whole Semper Paratus thing, eh? What do I carry when I ride? A road service club card and a cell phone. It's all about managing risk, to me.

 

[Steve]

If I lived in a place that was subject to riots or civil disorder, I'd reconsider my choice not to carry. Perhaps due to the privileges afforded me, I do not. There are no riots where I live and I do not believe there will be. I would be much more likely to face a kitchen grease fire, so I have a fire extinguisher in the kitchen. I have a weather radio. I know how to get out of my house if it fills with smoke and I'm crawling on my belly in the middle of the night. I know what a funnel cloud looks like. I keep my head on a swivel and avoid altercations. I keep my temper in check if I get cut off in traffic (that's taken a lot of work on my part). I don't use drugs or alcohol and I don't have to go into sketchy areas to buy drugs or bars to drink alcohol. These are the risks I believe I am most likely to face and that's my 'self-defense' if you will.

So to sum up, my judgment is that carrying guns and NEVER needing them is unnecessary liability for me. Probably for many people. Not saying it is that for everyone. I'm more likely to need jumper cables than a firearm.

IMO, a very sensible and practical perspectives on self-defense. I think the points @Bill Mattocks makes in the OP and throughout the thread are spot on. In general, for most people, guns are a net negative. They make the gun owners and others around them less safe, overall. And there are much easier, more practical things we can do that will make us more safe.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

IMO, a very sensible and practical perspectives on self-defense. I think the points @Bill Mattocks makes in the OP and throughout the thread are spot on. In general, for most people, guns are a net negative. They make the gun owners and others around them less safe, overall. And there are much easier, more practical things we can do that will make us more safe.

Like eat right, exercise, get good sleep, avoid drugs and alcohol…

 

[Steve]

Like eat right, exercise, get good sleep, avoid drugs and alcohol…

Totally. I'm really glad I'm no longer alone in this. I caught a lot of heat for this position a few years ago.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Totally. I'm really glad I'm no longer alone in this. I caught a lot of heat for this position a few years ago.

I’m all alone on this fence, I agree and disagree with both sides on a number of things surrounding this issue, but I do believe in my post you just quoted. If everyone was ABLE to do those things, the propensity for violence might be diminished significantly. That’s what this whole thing boils down to, stop doing violence to your fellow man. Everyone desires safety and security, that’s easier to accomplish if people don’t have to get it at the expense of others. Maybe the aliens will have an answer…we humans certainly aren’t doing very well at it.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

My Sifu said often, “control yourself, or someone else will control you”.

 

[Mider]

I personally don’t understand why people decide not to carry or rather why they think others shouldn’t

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I personally don’t understand why people decide not to carry or rather why they think others shouldn’t

You don't understand as in you know their reasoning but you disagree, or as in you literally don't know/understand what their reasoning is?

If you're stating you don't understand the logic, did you read the first post of this thread? Bill lays out a lot of reasons people have for it pretty clearly.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I personally don’t understand why people decide not to carry or rather why they think others shouldn’t

If you carry, you should do it everyday and be used to it. If you choose to not carry that’s fine too, just be consistent and responsible whatever the choice. The only time I don’t bring it, is when it isn’t legal, or practical, like the courthouse or a friends swimming pool party, in which case it’s locked in my safe inside my vehicle.

 

[drop bear]

I notice people who are all gunsy tend to be shy when it comes to things like handcuffs and bats and stuff.

So they really only give themselves two options. Which is run away or murder someone.

 

[Instructor]

I notice people who are all gunsy tend to be shy when it comes to things like handcuffs and bats and stuff.

So they really only give themselves two options. Which is run away or murder someone.

I started a perfectly good SAP post on here and nobody bothered...

 

[Dirty Dog]

I notice people who are all gunsy tend to be shy when it comes to things like handcuffs and bats and stuff.

So they really only give themselves two options. Which is run away or murder someone.

Not at all true. I don't carry a bat, but I do always carry a knife. This is extremely common among those who have chosen to arm themselves. I've also spent a couple days studying unarmed combat. Another thing that is quite common for armed citizens.

And of course, your binary view of how a handgun is used is, bluntly, ridiculous. A gun does not have to be used to kill to be effective. In the vast majority of cases, drawing a handgun will end the attack without any shots being fired. And if you DO fire, there is no requirement that you keep firing until the other person is dead. Only that they no longer pose a threat.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I notice people who are all gunsy tend to be shy when it comes to things like handcuffs and bats and stuff.

So they really only give themselves two options. Which is run away or murder someone.

I can’t imagine who you are talking about, I carry a knife, I have a very nice piece of fire hardened hickory in my truck. I have a chain with a grip. A keen edged saber in my bedroom. I have a staffy and a pit bull(okay these two are worthless for self defense). A Kimber pepper blaster sits in my car door. Lots of options. Never have I ever been shy about a thing, anything at all. Oh and I’m quite gunsy so I have quite a few of those as well. BTW it’s not murder when you are defending yourself. You yourself have said you would choke someone to death for biting you in a confrontation.