You might want to keep in mind that you are an armchair expert typing on a keyboard about things you've only read in books and practiced in dojos.....have you ever even seen the results of a real knife attack, in bloody person? I have! There was no chance to 'parry to a beautifully delivered arm bar'........it was, as Marc 'Crafty Dog' Denny describes it 'A crazed chimpanzee with a spike'.
One guy in a stabbing I showed up on DID punch his attacker in the face during the assault......of course he also got three stab wounds to the abdomen for his troubles.
The biggest problem I have with your posts is the dismissal of the threat of knife based on your 'dojo practice'.....the CERTAINTY that the attack will come in a certain manner, and you'll simply 'just parry to my horse stance and transition to the super-knife takeaway technique with the kung fu grip'......fortunately for you we live in a relatively safe society where the strong likelihood is that you'll never have to be confronted by a 'crazed chimpanzee with a spike'......but if you are, and you survive it, post some pictures of your injuries as a resulting object lesson.
Well, I am not as experienced as some, but I've been in more than two dozen street fights, I've been stabbed twice (three times if you count the time I stabbed myself ;-) ), I've had knives pulled on me more times than that, I once faced off with a guy knife to knife (though nothing happened after that), I was a cop reporter and not only saw the victims but read the cop reports and attended the trials of the killers, I worked for more than 20 years with corrections officers who live in the worst knife culture in the US and learned as much as I could from them about what comes down and how to deal with it, as well as discussing with cops their experiences and solutions. I've also spent a considerable amount of time looking at video of real knife attacks and studying everything in print I can get my hands on about what really happens on the street as opposed to what people think happens. I also have talked with quite a few guys who've faced knife attacks to find out how they happened and what they did to survive. If this means I'm an armchair expert, then I guess I am.
Now, lets talk about "dismissing the threat of the knife based on your dojo practice." Nothing I have said dismisses the threat of the knife. I'll be the first to tell you that they are very dangerous and that even a 10 year old with a knife is somebody to respect. The point of this discussion is my objection to some guys dissing a particular approach to edge weapon defense that has a proven track record and whose methods are found throughout the world spanning many centuries. The fact that so many people all over the world throughout so much time have found these methods useful should make one pause before shooting off an opinion. My point is that to dismiss that approach out of hand does nothing but display one's ignorance and indicates to me that the speaker has not spent any time determining how knife attacks really happen and what can be done to defeat them.
On your friend who punched a guy and then got stabbed: well, he probably didn't have control of the attacker's arm before he punched him. One key feature of this "classical" method is the first thing you try to do before anything else is get control of the other guy's arm so he doesn't get a chance to stick you again. If you don't do that, you might as well kiss your *** goodbye. Anyway, nothing is 100 percent certain to work, even this "classical" stuff.
Finally, let's address this "certainty" thing. You're right about that. You can't anticipate how the attack is going to be delivered because when you do that and deploy your defense in anticipation, you will be fooled, no question.
But the fact is, the average knife attack is in many ways predicable. Your average knifer tends to deliver blows in two ways: 1) the thrust from below in the forward grip to the heart or abdomen and 2) downward to the head and upper body with the icepick grip. The video evidence and the testimony I have received from people at the sharp end is consistent with this.
Here is a typical example of a knife attack which I've already posted but will post again:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BEjKU0p9JZw&feature=related
Note the commitment behind the blow. Note how it is delivered. Note that the knifer doesn't change his general target while making repeated strikes. Note also that the victim defeated the attack even though he was wounded by gaining control of the attacker's arm and disarming him (altho the disarm is not seen).
Given that the average attack comes in either of these flavors, the majority of the medieval fight books, for instance, showing knife defenses describe defenses only for these types of attacks.
Of course, the attack may travel a different path, but if you have trained for the two basic ones, you can adapt to the attack as it unfolds and change your response to fit the situation. This assumes you see the attack coming and have time to react.
At the end of the day, this "classical" stuff is about how to defend yourself against the average knifer. It's not about how to defend yourself against the escrimador.
The mistake the two guys in the video that started this thread made is that they assume most knife attacks will be made as they make them. The facts don't support this assumption. They shouldn't have argued "these defenses are stupid and don't work." Instead, they should have argued "these defenses don't work against me." It is must harder to refute the latter argument, for a cautious knifer who anticipates a defense, who holds back and doesn't commit, who snipes away, who feints, weaves and dodges, is a really dangerous animal.
