Why would anyone issue "honory rank?"

[arnisador]

I'm not sure how that's a cross rank?

 

[dsp921]

There is another form of cross ranking which one of my instructors uses. He cross ranks you at your rank but in your art and not his. It's a way of recognizing someone when they join his association but is not a promotion and not a cross rank into his art.

I don't understand. If you have rank in your art why would he re-rank you and how can he give rank in an art that he might not do? I may be just confused....I've seen associations give certificates that acknowledge your current rank, is that what you mean? I don't see any "cross" in what you describe, it sounds like he is simply acknowledging existing rank
Since intent and tone sometimes get lost when writing, please know that I am not challenging your instructor or what he does, I'm just not sure I understand what you mean.

 

[The Kai]

How can he rank me in an art he knows nothing about??

 

[dsp921]

My guess is that he is actually acknowledging an existing rank on behalf of the association. I guess now we have "honorary" rank, "cross" rank and "acknowledged" rank. Wonder how many more will come out of this....

 

[47MartialMan]

By cross-ranking mean being awarded rank in one art because you have rank in another. Like if you have a BB in Kenpo and someone gives you a BB in TKD. Doesn't necessarily have to be high ranks, or ranks being exchanged, but that would fall under cross-ranking, at least the way I see it. This is bad because you now have a BB in a style you have no experience or skill in.

As to the contradiction, cross-ranking is, in my opinion, absolutely contradictory to the intent of rank. However, honorary rank, being that it is given as a recognition of some sort, and does not in any way signify actual rank, isn't a real contradiction to the intent of rank. Honorary, by definition, means conferred in recognition of achievement without the usual prerequisites. I hope I'm making some sense. Basically, cross-rank would be actual rank being awarded, honorary rank is not actual rank, it's "honorary". I wish I could come up with another word in place of honorary to better make my point.

Makes a lot of sense, I just wanted to clarify..

 

[James Kovacich]

I don't understand. If you have rank in your art why would he re-rank you and how can he give rank in an art that he might not do? I may be just confused....I've seen associations give certificates that acknowledge your current rank, is that what you mean? I don't see any "cross" in what you describe, it sounds like he is simply acknowledging existing rank
Since intent and tone sometimes get lost when writing, please know that I am not challenging your instructor or what he does, I'm just not sure I understand what you mean.

I see it more like recognition too but they've called it "cross rank" since they started the association in 1989. Maybe a little before cross rank became so broadly used.

 

[47MartialMan]

Is it a honorary rank moreso than a cross-rank. Could honorary rank also be that of recognition?

 

[dsp921]

Is it a honorary rank moreso than a cross-rank. Could honorary rank also be that of recognition?

Good question....In recognition of what?
In recognition of existing rank = cross-rank.
In recognition of something else = honorary rank.
By something else I mean some sort of contribution: cash, time, event promotion, just being a big shot of some sort (politician, celebrity...)
Obviously, these are just my opinions and not some sort of concrete rule.

 

[James Kovacich]

In recognition of existing rank = cross-rank.

Thats how I've seen it used.

 

[47MartialMan]

Good question....In recognition of what?
In recognition of existing rank = cross-rank.
In recognition of something else = honorary rank.
By something else I mean some sort of contribution: cash, time, event promotion, just being a big shot of some sort (politician, celebrity...)
Obviously, these are just my opinions and not some sort of concrete rule.

So why "give" out a honorary rank? If it seems "political"? Why have a cross rank when the main rank is utmost recognized? If rank, of any such is recognition, should it be hard-earned no matter the source.

Too much emphasis is on any rank. The rank is for recognition and woe is it blown out of proportion. Why cant there be any OTHER Award to distinguish such recognition apart from hard-earned?

The rank and its issue is a snare that has no one to cut it loose. Rank seems to be a controversal issue within the martial arts and thus is the "holy grail" of it. It would seem that the "holy grail" should be the knowledge and skills achieved. Any rank not hard-earned, could be considered as not genuine. Thus, any such, honorary, or other, will later cause controversy on their own.

 

[dsp921]

So why "give" out a honorary rank? If it seems "political"? Why have a cross rank when the main rank is utmost recognized? If rank, of any such is recognition, should it be hard-earned no matter the source.

Too much emphasis is on any rank. The rank is for recognition and woe is it blown out of proportion. Why cant there be any OTHER Award to distinguish such recognition apart from hard-earned?

The rank and its issue is a snare that has no one to cut it loose. Rank seems to be a controversal issue within the martial arts and thus is the "holy grail" of it. It would seem that the "holy grail" should be the knowledge and skills achieved. Any rank not hard-earned, could be considered as not genuine. Thus, any such, honorary, or other, will later cause controversy on their own.

I agree. Especially about the goal should be to gain knowledge and skill. I can't explain why people give honorary ranks, maybe it's because they really don't have much else to offer as a method of showing graditude.

 

[47MartialMan]

I agree. Especially about the goal should be to gain knowledge and skill. I can't explain why people give honorary ranks, maybe it's because they really don't have much else to offer as a method of showing graditude.

Yeah, they can give a plaque, crystal chalice, statue, etc., why such a rank?

I re-emphasize-it will only cause controversy. Perhaps the "honoree" will abuse the rank. Perhaps peers will not recognize it.

 

[dsp921]

Yeah, they can give a plaque, crystal chalice, statue, etc., why such a rank?

I re-emphasize-it will only cause controversy. Perhaps the "honoree" will abuse the rank. Perhaps peers will not recognize it.

I didn't want to come off as defending honorary ranks. I really just wanted to point out that cross-ranking is what would most likely cause problems. Those are the people that will try to pass off the rank as legitimate. More so than someone getting an honorary BB. You're right, a plaque or statue is a better way to show appreciation, and a lot less confusing.

 

[47MartialMan]

A.) I didn't want to come off as defending honorary ranks.

B.) I really just wanted to point out that cross-ranking is what would most likely cause problems. Those are the people that will try to pass off the rank as legitimate.

C.) More so than someone getting an honorary BB. You're right, a plaque or statue is a better way to show appreciation, and a lot less confusing.

A.) You didn't, in my view.

B.) Perhaps. But here are those "honorees" that would state that they had such rank to become recognized.

C.) :asian: "The Almighty Black Belt" :asian: Who wants one, or has need for one without hard-earning?

 

[dsp921]

A.) You didn't, in my view.

B.) Perhaps. But here are those "honorees" that would state that they had such rank to become recognized.

C.) :asian: "The Almighty Black Belt" :asian: Who wants one, or has need for one without hard-earning?

A) Good

B) Absolutely a possibility (but more of a problem with cross-rank)

C) Want one? Lots of people. Deserve one? Only those that earned it, not those that had one given to them.

I guess in the end I'm not a big fan of honorary rank, and definitley against cross-rank. I can tolerate honorary as long as it is clear that it is what it is.