Why would anyone issue "honory rank?"

[dsp921]

Honorary rank is usually given to honorable people and generally the certificate is written so that it is obvious that it is an honorary belt. I have no problem with that. Crossranking however is a different story, this is where, in my opinion, people take advantage and claim lineage that is not accurate. Maybe some of the posts are using the term "honorary" the same as "crossranking"? I think there is a differnence.

 

[Shogun]

The line has been used a lot on here, but Hatsumi soke (Bujinkan) will "give you the rope to need to hang yourself with". The martial arts are great in the fact that we can physically see how good someone really is.

 

[arnisador]

There is a difference between honorary rank and cross-rank in principle, but I guess I see them conflated quite often.

 

[Andrew Green]

wow... this is sure a big debate over a rank that has nothing at all to do with training or ability...

I know!

I hereby award a honorary 5th degree black belt in "arrg-ryu" to everyone viewing this. Now to argue against honorary ranks is hypocritical, seeing as you know have one. Case Closed

 

[47MartialMan]

wow... this is sure a big debate over a rank that has nothing at all to do with training or ability...

I know!

I hereby award a honorary 5th degree black belt in "arrg-ryu" to everyone viewing this. Now to argue against honorary ranks is hypocritical, seeing as you know have one. Case Closed

So a honorary rank is as clumsy as a self-proclaim one or title?
So when one gets a hinorary rank, do we call them "Your Honor"?

 

[Andrew Green]

So a honorary rank is as clumsy as a self-proclaim one or title?
So when one gets a hinorary rank, do we call them "Your Honor"?

No, it is a HONORING rank and has absolutely nothing at all to do with training or skill. This is not the same as a self-proclaimed rank.

But, yes your honor, we can call you that now

 

[47MartialMan]

A.) No, it is a HONORING rank and has absolutely nothing at all to do with training or skill. This is not the same as a self-proclaimed rank.

B.) But, yes your honor, we can call you that now

A.) But some that get a honorary rank wind of dis-honoring it by excessive declaration of receipt. Thus, adding to a self-proclaim rank. Why not give another awards in another form?

B.) Call who that?

 

[Andrew Green]

A.) But some that get a honorary rank wind of dis-honoring it by excessive declaration of receipt. Thus, adding to a self-proclaim rank. Why not give another awards in another form?

A few idiots don't invalidate the idea

Beside, change the award and the people that manipulate things like this would just promote it as a more important one...

B.) Call who that?

You, didn't you read my post? You got a honorary 5th degree

 

[47MartialMan]

A.) A few idiots don't invalidate the idea

B.) Beside, change the award and the people that manipulate things like this would just promote it as a more important one...


C.) You, didn't you read my post? You got a honorary 5th degree

A.) They will if others allow it.

B.) How true...

C.) I dont want it. I am not for it nor against it (honorary rank)

If there is going to be honorary rank, there will be honorary title. Both subject to dis-honorary gains.

 

[James Kovacich]

I'm a big fan of Gene Lebell but this what he had to say after he received 2 "honorary" ranks of 9th degree from Japan recently.

He said something he was very proud because these ranks were legitimate and coldn't be bought.

But they still were "honorary."

 

[47MartialMan]

I'm a big fan of Gene Lebell but this what he had to say after he received 2 "honorary" ranks of 9th degree from Japan recently.

He said something he was very proud because these ranks were legitimate and coldn't be bought.

But they still were "honorary."

Yeah he had a couple of "cameo" parts in some movies...though I would have loved to see him in action.

 

[arnisador]

He was a regular stuntperson on "Married...with Children," for example.

 

[47MartialMan]

What....youre kidding. I did see him...

 

[Gentle Fist]

Honorary Ranks are for a person's character and/or contributions ($). Sort of like a Honorary PhD from a University.

 

[jfarnsworth]

(sigh)



artyon:

 

[47MartialMan]

Honorary Ranks are for a person's character and/or contributions ($). Sort of like a Honorary PhD from a University.

So a honoray rank doesn't necessarily reflect experience or skill?

If ranking was designed to do this, isnt this somewhat contradictory?

 

[dsp921]

So a honoray rank doesn't necessarily reflect experience or skill?

No, I don't think it reflects experience or skill in martial arts, the same way that an honorary degree from a college or university doesn't reflect knowledge in the area of the honorary degree being bestowed upon someone. An honorary rank is meant to 'honor' someone for their contributions. Doesn't Arnold Schwartzenegger have an honorary black belt that was given to him for putting on the big tournament during his fitness weekends in Ohio? Things like that get people honorary rank.
A cross-rank would recognize experience and skill in MA, a different MA than the one the cross-rank is being given in.
Honorary rank is fine, I'm not a fan of cross-ranking.

 

[47MartialMan]

No, I don't think it reflects experience or skill in martial arts, the same way that an honorary degree from a college or university doesn't reflect knowledge in the area of the honorary degree being bestowed upon someone. An honorary rank is meant to 'honor' someone for their contributions. Doesn't Arnold Schwartzenegger have an honorary black belt that was given to him for putting on the big tournament during his fitness weekends in Ohio? Things like that get people honorary rank.
A cross-rank would recognize experience and skill in MA, a different MA than the one the cross-rank is being given in.
Honorary rank is fine, I'm not a fan of cross-ranking.

By cross-ranking, you mean one guy awards another (each other) high ranks?

And, what response to you have of my second statement/question.
If ranking was designed to do this, (reflect experience or skill) isnt this somewhat contradictory?

 

[dsp921]

By cross-ranking, you mean one guy awards another (each other) high ranks?

And, what response to you have of my second statement/question.
If ranking was designed to do this, (reflect experience or skill) isnt this somewhat contradictory?

By cross-ranking mean being awarded rank in one art because you have rank in another. Like if you have a BB in Kenpo and someone gives you a BB in TKD. Doesn't necessarily have to be high ranks, or ranks being exchanged, but that would fall under cross-ranking, at least the way I see it. This is bad because you now have a BB in a style you have no experience or skill in.

As to the contradiction, cross-ranking is, in my opinion, absolutely contradictory to the intent of rank. However, honorary rank, being that it is given as a recognition of some sort, and does not in any way signify actual rank, isn't a real contradiction to the intent of rank. Honorary, by definition, means conferred in recognition of achievement without the usual prerequisites. I hope I'm making some sense. Basically, cross-rank would be actual rank being awarded, honorary rank is not actual rank, it's "honorary". I wish I could come up with another word in place of honorary to better make my point.

 

[James Kovacich]

By cross-ranking mean being awarded rank in one art because you have rank in another. Like if you have a BB in Kenpo and someone gives you a BB in TKD. Doesn't necessarily have to be high ranks, or ranks being exchanged, but that would fall under cross-ranking, at least the way I see it. This is bad because you now have a BB in a style you have no experience or skill in.

As to the contradiction, cross-ranking is, in my opinion, absolutely contradictory to the intent of rank. However, honorary rank, being that it is given as a recognition of some sort, and does not in any way signify actual rank, isn't a real contradiction to the intent of rank. Honorary, by definition, means conferred in recognition of achievement without the usual prerequisites. I hope I'm making some sense. Basically, cross-rank would be actual rank being awarded, honorary rank is not actual rank, it's "honorary". I wish I could come up with another word in place of honorary to better make my point.

There is another form of cross ranking which one of my instructors uses. He cross ranks you at your rank but in your art and not his. It's a way of recognizing someone when they join his association but is not a promotion and not a cross rank into his art.