Why until recently effective TMA practitioners were not represented in MMA?

[ShotoNoob]

From what I understand, you were the one making a literal counterpoint to every line I wrote. I stated an example of TMA being useful in sports competition, which can be generalized in MMA. You stated kempo is not seen in MMA. I specified I hadn't seen it there, only in kickboxing. But the 'MMA guys' you refer to accept kickboxing as evidence of striking skills, for fairly good reasons.

Welll, if you stop talking in circles, you'll finally arrive. At the beginning. From what I understand you were the one making a literal commentary.

We already agreed on the kick boxing.

Yup. In agreement here. And in some of the other parts, not going to respond 'we agree' to all of it.

Ok.

I kind of do have to wait on you to say what TMA are effective in MMA, based on your definition of TMA. To me, muay thai and bjj are both TMA's, wrestling could be considered one as well, and I believe most MMA people practice one of those 3. I get the feeling that's not what you're considering TMA's though.

Gee, I've been posting about traditional karate. Your stance, Muay Thai & BJJ are TMAs. Wrestling too? Explain. Whats' your definition of a TMA, then?

Again, it's not that you do traditional karate, or offer substance. It's that you are assuming people's stances, which, if you took time to listen to them, are pretty close to your own. The attitude you come off with matters in an online discussion, unless you have no desire to have people actually listen/pay attention to what you're saying.

See reply above. Yes, attitude does matter.

Copy/paste of my above reply, just to keep it organized.
What franchise do you think i am interested in, and what differing view am I shooting down? I am suggesting, and have suggested continuously on this forum that with appropriate training, tma's can be just as effective as mma, which I'm semi certain is also your belief. But you seem to think everyone here is an advocate for mma, hence my statement of you acting like a dick without knowing the other people's stances.

So what is your franchise? What is "appropriate" training, what is your stance? To clarify. Is TMA under-represented because it's training isn't effective when it traditionally taught?

As for the anatomy lesson, the subject of the thread is MMA related. So your "what I think" is out of context; the posters here are advocating for MMA, by what's effective in that environment.

Any ideas other than biology?

 

[ShotoNoob]

-

 

[Headhunter]

Where is the kempo in MMA? Nowhere, that's where.

Stephen Thompson. Kenpo black belt undefeated kick boxer and former UFC title challenger, chuck Liddell kenpo black belt former UFC light heavyweight champion

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Welll, if you stop talking in circles, you'll finally arrive. At the beginning. From what I understand you were the one making a literal commentary.

We already agreed on the kick boxing.



Ok.



Gee, I've been posting about traditional karate. Your stance, Muay Thai & BJJ are TMAs. Wrestling too? Explain. Whats' your definition of a TMA, then?



See reply above. Yes, attitude does matter.



So what is your franchise? What is "appropriate" training, what is your stance? To clarify. Is TMA under-represented because it's training isn't effective when it traditionally taught?

As for the anatomy lesson, the subject of the thread is MMA related. So your "what I think" is out of context; the posters here are advocating for MMA, by what's effective in that environment.

Any ideas other than biology?

Clearly you have no desire to have meaningful discussion, or be willing to put down your actual stance on anything, but instead just trying to put everything back on the other posters while insulting them at the same time. Not worth wasting any more of my time, good luck with everything.

 

[Buka]

And they seem to take lengths to differentiate themselves.
Difference between Traditional Karate and Sport Karate

That was pretty fuuny. It could have saved quite a bit of article space by saying "Traditional Karate good, Sport Karate very, very bad."

AssHats.

 

[Yokozuna514]

That was pretty fuuny. It could have saved quite a bit of article space by saying "Traditional Karate good, Sport Karate very, very bad."

AssHats.

Interesting to see someone linking a write up on traditional karate vs sport karate from this mma gym. I know people that work here .

I can’t speak for everyone that works there but it is not a ‘karate’ environment at all. They are definitely more Muay Thai oriented for their striking than karate from what I know. So it’s pretty funny to me that they have any comment on karate at all.

Although I agree that the write up makes them sound like asshats, they are a decent mma gym and have some very knowledgeable trainers there.

That being said, this is not be the place that would have a learned an opinion on karate, sport or traditional. They simply don’t train or teach either to the extent that would make their opinion authoritative on the subject. It would be like listening to Ford talk about the difference between Toyota’s vs Nissan’s.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And we see judo and kyokushin representing in MMA. and that is due probably to their solid sport element.

Now if someone did Japanese jujitsu and wado-ryu. They probably would not represent as well. Even though they are technically learning the same thing.

And they seem to take lengths to differentiate themselves.
Difference between Traditional Karate and Sport Karate

So it isn't just my thing.

Some do go to some lengths to differentiate themselves. I don't see much need for that. Any style could involve sport - either some style-specific competition, or participating in whatever competition they please (which they might or might not train specifically for). I've not used formal competition at any point in my training, but I don't see it as contrary to the training, either. I wouldn't pick my primary art as a source for competition if winning competition was the goal - it's not built around that - but it has the appropriate elements for striking competition (probably not realistically for boxing, but for most Karate-oriented approaches). And it has a reasonable base for grappling competition, in those schools where they've broadened the ground work from the pretty sloppy sweeps originally included.

Of course, I'd expect a sport-oriented person with equivalent training to do better in competition. So, me against an equivalent Judoka? They ought to win. Me against an equivalent sport-trained Karateka? Again, I'd expect them to have an edge there.

Anyway, my point was simply that "TMA" includes some things that do work well in MMA. To me, that says the problem isn't whether or not something is "TMA" but how that TMA is practiced and taught. Sport-oriented schools/styles tend to do more pressure testing and resistive training. They tend to innovate more, based on the feedback from training and competition. They are more visible, so people can pick up ideas from what's used successfully elsewhere. BJJ is a great example of all three of those points. There's no reason any TMA can't do all three of those, if they choose to. Do those, and results will improve.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Here's the into to your linked material.

Before selecting a karate school for your child, make sure you know and understand which form of karate you’re enrolling him/her into. Generally speaking, there are two different types of karate classes, traditional karate and sport karate.

What did you think of the write-up?

I thought he made his take on that kind of clear.

Personally, I consider it a false distinction.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You're looking into mirror, my friend. And it shows.

Don't call me "friend". You've been insulting and condescending to people who have been polite and attempted to be helpful. You've obfuscated - I believe purposefully - requested that which you won't reciprocate to, and talked at length about things you nearly simultaneously admit you know very little about.

 

[ShotoNoob]

I thought he made his take on that kind of clear.

Personally, I consider it a false distinction.

You consider what a false distinction?

 

[ShotoNoob]

Don't call me "friend". You've been insulting and condescending to people who have been polite and attempted to be helpful. You've obfuscated - I believe purposefully - requested that which you won't reciprocate to, and talked at length about things you nearly simultaneously admit you know very little about.

Well we're all so friendly here, I mean I'm rferred to as "Buddy." And we all want to strive to be friendly & helpful. So for you I choose "friend."

I can tell you've tried so hard to be helpful. I'm trying so hard to reciprocate. Simultaneously too.

Let me know if there is another handle you'd prefer. Reciprocate.

 

[Headhunter]

Well we're all so friendly here, I mean I'm rferred to as "Buddy." And we all want to strive to be friendly & helpful. So for you I choose "friend."

I can tell you've tried so hard to be helpful. I'm trying so hard to reciprocate. Simultaneously too.

Let me know if there is another handle you'd prefer. Reciprocate.

I'd love to know what your martial art experience is? I mean you call yourself a noob and have a photo of a guy (don't know if it's you) in a white belt. Yet you're on here insulting people and insulting other styles acting like an expert. I could go back and look on your old posts to see if you've said but I have enough headaches without trying to read through your old posts

 

[Yokozuna514]

Some do go to some lengths to differentiate themselves.

When it comes to karate, I think it is important to differentiate orgs that use point style fighting rules vs orgs that use knockdown fighting rules for competition. Even though both styles can be said to have a 'competitive sport' aspect to their game, training for point style fighting is vastly different than training for knockdown fighting. A Kyokushin fighter that enters a point fighting tournament may get annoyed because everyone trains to strike fast to score the point but that would pretty much be it. The biggest danger would come from an errant hit to the face. A point fighter that enters a knockdown fighting tournament would put themselves in a situation that they could be seriously knocked out so I think this is an important distinction.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You consider what a false distinction?

Sport Karate vs Traditional Karate.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'd love to know what your martial art experience is? I mean you call yourself a noob and have a photo of a guy (don't know if it's you) in a white belt. Yet you're on here insulting people and insulting other styles acting like an expert. I could go back and look on your old posts to see if you've said but I have enough headaches without trying to read through your old posts

He hasn't said, that I can recall, and he has been asked several times, in different ways, by several people who were curious about his point of view.

That leads me to believe - based on past experience on forums with people who evaded that question - that he has little or no actual experience.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When it comes to karate, I think it is important to differentiate orgs that use point style fighting rules vs orgs that use knockdown fighting rules for competition. Even though both styles can be said to have a 'competitive sport' aspect to their game, training for point style fighting is vastly different than training for knockdown fighting. A Kyokushin fighter that enters a point fighting tournament may get annoyed because everyone trains to strike fast to score the point but that would pretty much be it. The biggest danger would come from an errant hit to the face. A point fighter that enters a knockdown fighting tournament would put themselves in a situation that they could be seriously knocked out so I think this is an important distinction.

It's important to distinguish those points (for those who are seeking one or the other), but I don't think it's useful to try to distinguish between sport and traditional. They overlap.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

He hasn't said, that I can recall, and he has been asked several times, in different ways, by several people who were curious about his point of view.

That leads me to believe - based on past experience on forums with people who evaded that question - that he has little or no actual experience.

Once again we have confirmation that sufficiently advanced Dunning-Kruger is indistinguishable from trolling and vice-versa.

 

[ShotoNoob]

I'd love to know what your martial art experience is? I mean you call yourself a noob and have a photo of a guy (don't know if it's you) in a white belt.

You picked up on that. Very sharp on your part.

IYet you're on here insulting people and insulting other styles acting like an expert. I could go back and look on your old posts to see if you've said but I have enough headaches without trying to read through your old posts

I kinda thought your respond quoted above was disrespectful. Yet you seem to think that's appropriate?

Acting like an expert? I suppose then you are an expert. What is your martial art experience?

 

[ShotoNoob]

Sport Karate vs Traditional Karate.

Well, your view is definitely wrong. The kind of training emphasis is different. I will agree it's not a black & white distinction.

Glad about one thing. You're an MMA guy @ heart - so we do have the MMA-minded enthroned here, as I proposed.

 

[Headhunter]

You picked up on that. Very sharp on your part.



I kinda thought your respond quoted above was disrespectful. Yet you seem to think that's appropriate?

Acting like an expert? I suppose then you are an expert. What is your martial art experience?

Sorry does the truth bother you? Ask anyone I'll doubt they'll disagree with what I've said.

My experience? Okay sure. 26 years of kenpo, 15 years of boxing, 12 years of kickboxing/Muay Thai, 2 years of Bjj, 1 year of Krav Maga, 2 years of ishinryu karate, 6 years of teaching kenpo and about 3 months of teaching of Krav Maga. Okay I've answered so your turn