Why Traditional Karate Is Not Effective for Self-Defense

[Daniel Sullivan]

Folks, I think we're gonna have to let a lot of this go. rdonovan strikes me a sincere, but confused individual. Logic is not working. He assumes that if others just read and studied what he did then everyone would agree with him because it's common sense. There is no exchange of ideas just statements of fact with little backing and a lot of non-sequiturs added in.

I think it's time to take the high road.

I do not feel that it is unreasonable, nor the low road to ask one to support assertions made on a public forum. If his statements are factual in any way, he should be able to elaborate. Thus far all he has done is dodge every quesiton and regurgitate ninjutsu/military comments, not to mention some outrageous scenario that he claims "things like ninjutsu, police, and military tactics" would supposedly get you out of.

What I, and I believe others, would like to see is a concise arguement that involves specific strategies and techniques that one would find in "things like ninjutsu, police, and military tactics" that are not found in any ryu of Karate (or for him to specify which ryu/ryus he means) that make them more effective, both in general, and in the specific scenario that he described.

I also asked him pointed questions about what led to the scenario that he described.

These are not unreasonable things to ask of one who posts that "nothing out of a dojo" is effective on the mythical street, particularly when they go on to name Ninjutsu as a viable alternative, even though it happens to be taught in dojos.

If he can offer support for his statements, then perhaps exchange of ideas can take place.

Daniel

 

[nelsonkari]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I don't have a dog in this fight or the time to wad through pages and pages of multiple posts to get the entire "flavor" of this thread.

I've always believed that it is not the art but the artist that determines how one is going to fair in a self defense situation? To give an example, not many of us do full reverse punches with the opposite hand on our hips anymore yet is it not true that getting struck with such a punch particularily in the solar plexus is more that adequite to subdue most attackers?

To quote a well known departed martial artist, "A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick" in the ultimate scenario.

Just my opinion.

 

[rdonovan1]

R.Donovan,

I kindly obliged you in defining what I meant by 'technical' on the previous page. You have continued to dodge the questions about specifics to substantiate your assertions and continue to make general statements about "things like ninjutsu, police and military tactics" without defining what it is about these that make the specifically effective in the scenario you described, while Karate would not be.

If you have the knowledge to substantiate your claims, please put it forth. If not, then kindly withdraw from the discussion. If you cannot substantiate your claims, then you are simply guessing and parrotting what you have seen in the advertisement section of BB magazine. Your understanding of historical ninjutsu is severely lacking, as evidenced in your posts, and as you have indicated that you have never studied it, you have no basis to gauge its effectiveness.

And no, reading books does not count as studying a martial art.

Daniel

I'm not dodging anything. I just simply don't have the time to spend all of my waking hours on this or any other forum as I have an actual life outside of this forum and away from the computer.

 

[rdonovan1]

Hi rdonovan1,

Hmm, don't really know what to say about the last few pages here...

While I appreciate where you are coming from, I will reiterate my previous advice. You have not the understanding to be posting "facts" here, as many of your posts here contradict each other, and have some rather large errors in them. For example, stating that the Japanese arts were previously known as "Budo", then later added were changed into the "-do" systems contradicts itself. You also continually state that "military, police and ninjutsu" are better suited for street preparedness than karate simply shows a lack of understanding of each and every system you mention.

Military and police training is not actually geared to street violence, as in a street fight. Police training, when it comes to the violence side of things, the priority is not getting away, or coming out on top, or even surviving, it is taking the other person in to custody, and that requires specific techniques that are not necessarily useful in a street fight. Remember also that police rarely operate singly, and there are certain tools available (handcuffs, baton, spray, pistol depending on where you are), and that they are percieved in the public mind as the "good guys", therefore what they do will (almost) always be percieved by witnesses as the right thing, and they will not attempt to interfere. On the contrary, the public witnesses will comply with most requests the police make. The police training is also very limited, with only a small amount of time alloted to the training of each topic, based on the relative importance deemed. And hand-to-hand is not often seen as a high priority, when you send officers out with weapons.

Military, on the other hand, has a higher emphasis on combative training, but that all involves weaponry, and is designed with a lethal outcome in mind. Some armies in the world don't even have unarmed combat as part of their training, as it has little relevance when the majority of combat involves high power firearms. But those that do still include unarmed combat, it is a low priority, and has similar timing constraints to the police training. So neither of these are actually geared towards a street environment.

Then we get to ninjutsu. I'm sorry to say, but you have absolutely no experience, knowledge, or understanding when it comes to this subject. Simply getting a few of Richard Van Donk's Home Study tapes and some books give you nothing. Without an instructor, they really don't. And your views on Samurai and Ninja are quite skewed and incorrect. Ninja were in no way the "SWAT of their day", nor anything similar. They were simply a grouping of people who lived a particular life which involved an approach to martial arts (which in itself came from the various Samurai who influenced and originated a number of the Ninjutsu Ryu-ha). Without getting some experience, I would advise leaving posting about such topics. And experience is gained in a dojo, not from books, tapes, and certainly not from movies.

The Samurai were not simply "bullies" either, that is a gross oversimplification of a small number of the less-than reputable sort. The samurai were people, with the same strengths and weaknesses of character as any other group, studying psychology should help you there.

You often talk about the writings of Sun Tzu, Musashi, the study of psychology, the teachings of Erikson, Bandler, Grinder, the ideas of marketing, and other areas of study best left out of discussions here, but I am sorry to say that I have yet to see any evidence of understanding of any of them. Simply stating thatpeople here need to study these things as you have isn't really going to cut it, as I have, and I can't follow your thinking at all.

Now, when it comes to the situation you described, that has no real weight at all. Nothing would help there. Not Ninjutsu, not Karate, not anything. And I note that you still, after a few days, have yet to answer the simple question of how, if Karate does not give you the answer to the situation (that you designed, by the way), then how do you propose solving your dilema? Obviously using Ninjutsu (which I don't believe you have the first understanding of), or Police or Military training (which is taken out of the equation by your set-up, unless we allow for them to be off-duty). I can't see a way out, you know.

But to get to the crux of it all, your comments that Karate is not geared up for a street confrontation are feeling quite out of place here. The arguments you have sited are non-existant, the idea of military or police training being "better suited" are not realistic, and it all comes down to how it is trained. Oh, and finally, the martial arts (in a true, historical sense) are MILITARY arts. Not for self development, not for self improvement, not for spiritual refinement, but to go out onto a battlefield, and make more of them dead than they make your side dead. And, if you possibly can, make sure you don't get dead in the process. That's it. Karate is just as well suited to that as any other. It's all in the way it's trained.

Okay, rant over. Back to your regular thread.

I feel sorry for you if you believe all of that as it shows to me that you have not done enough study of any of it nor have you actually gone out to find out that in which you do not know. All that you are doing is assuming instead of finding out the real truth and in that sense I really feel sorry for you.

From what you have described here and from what I have seen from other people it is very obvious that a lot of people tend to have a 'Chicken Little' mentality and are unwilling to find out the real truth because they are afraid that if they knew the real truth then it would damage their pride and their sense of ego.

I may not know everything and perhaps I am not even the brightest bulb in the barrel, but unlike a lot of other people that I have met both online and offline I at least take the time to go and find out that in which I do not know and to model myself after those people who truly know what they are talking about and/or who are doing something that I wish to do.

From a martial art perspective that would include people like Chuck Norris, Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi, Dan Inosanto, Bruce Lee and others like them and that is only from a martial art perspective that is not including what you can learn from the worlds of business and psychology as well as through personal experience.

Like most people I like watching movies relating to things like the martial arts, but unlike most people I generally do not believe everything that I see in the movies as I know that is all nothing but hollywood fiction created by writers and it is usually very poorly researched as well.

There are some things though that you will find in the media that are for real and that are properly researched. The trick is to know what is real and what is not and from what I have seen both online and offline there are a lot of people out there that have as of yet not been able to discern the fact from the fiction.

I don't know about the rest of anyone else, but I personally don't care as to what the media says because 9 times out of ten it is so damn negative that it is not even funny and that is why I generally don't pay attention to it. To me it is nothing but fluff and is really no better than toilet paper as most of that stuff is and was created for the sole purpose of making a sale and making someone rich. Most of it has nothing to do with reality and when people start to learn that and is able to start differentiating that from reality then the sooner that things like economy will improve for the better.

If you have not read the book by Chuck Norris called 'The power within' then I suggest that you do because a lot of what is talking about is true and whether people realize it or not both zen and NLP both have something in common and that is that they both seek to expand your mind and to help you overcome your fears.

Fear is the greatest enemy that you can have and if you allow that you control you and to get the better of you then you will always lose no matter what.

Chuck Norris said it best that when you learn to conquer yourself then anything is possible and Bruce Lee proved that time and time again. Bruce did not care about whether he was popular or not. All that he cared about what the truth and that is something that people would do well to learn about and to implement in their lives as Bruce knew like Chuck Norris that you are your worst enemy and that you need to learn how to get out of your own way if you are going to improve and to be good at anything in life.

If someone here wants to challenge the wisdom of people like Bruce Lee then go and dig him up, bring him back to life and challenge him to a fight. Somehow though I seriously doubt that is possible and even if it were possible I know that very few people on this forum would be able to beat Bruce Lee in a real fight.

Bruce like the ninja knew that each and every style had it's strengths and it's weaknesses and that why Bruce trained as much as he did trying to learn from every source that he could as he wanted to develop himself and to prove to himself that he could do anything that he put his mind to no matter what other people said or thought about him. For him nothing was impossible.

 

[jks9199]

What I am saying is that Karate has basically been stripped of all it's truly effective combative techniques over the years so that it could be turned into a sport and the vast majority of those techniques that were originally designed for combat have been lost.

They did that for a reason as many people initially thought that Karate the way it was orginally developed was way too violent for the competitive sports arena and as a result they decided that the best way to make it more friendly for the competitive sport arena was to take out all of the tactics and techniques that orginally made it a combat art.

All martial arts in Japan were once part of what was called budo which was the study of war and combat. Over the years though many of the martial arts were toned down and turned into the Do classification system.

Martial arts that end in the Do classification are meant for sport and spiritual refinement. Those that have the extension of ryu or jutsu are still designed for actual combat situations.

Ninjutsu is one of the martial arts from Japan that has not been converted over to the Do system at all and according to Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi who is the 34 generation grandmaster of Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu it never will be converted either and that is why you do not see anyone in the competitive sports arena using ninjutsu.

Bringing ninjutsu into the sports arena would be a lot like walking down main street with a fully automatic assault rifle, a rocket launcher, and a bag full of explosives. Ninjutsu was at least in feudal Japan the equivalant of our modern day special forces or SWAT as they were very unconventional in their tactics and techniques and saw everything in their environment as a possible weapon that they could use against the Samurai who were at that time the only people who could carry a sword legally and at that time that was the deadliest weapon of the time.

If you were to do your homework about the history of Japan and the martial arts of Japan and Okinawa, then you would already know this and you would also know that what I am saying is true.

Dude...

You are in a bizarre place all your own, cobbled together apparently out of half-understood stories...

Let me suggest that just maybe you should learn a little bit about the purpose and methodology you're deriding so fervently. There's a huge range in "traditional" martial arts instruction, ranging from the "health benefits only" tai chi and New Ager aikidokas through to people who train for several hours a day, fighting bare knuckle, full contact in various forms of karate and kung fu. The sporting aspect is somewhere in the middle.

Budo Taijutsu (which you keep referring to as ninjutsu; ninjutsu is only part of the systems Hatsumi teaches, and not the major emphasis of his teaching today) can be a very effective art... or it can be a bunch of useless motions. It simply depends on the way it is taught. By your own admissions, you've only learned from videos. These freeze the understanding at the moment the instructor was filmed. Hayes has gone on in his own path, which is separate and apart from Hatsumi's, and Van Donk's. Relying on their videos from several years ago for accurate information about their training today is kind of like reading Galen's medical writing, and figuring that it will let you treat patients today.

 

[jks9199]

I suggest that all of you check out the works of Sun Tzu and Miyamoto Musashi and I would also suggest that you study up on the psychology of first impressions as your skills in those two areas seem to need some work.

If you understood as to how first impressions and as to how strategy and the human mind really worked then you would have a better understanding as to where I am coming from.

Sun Tzu and Miyamoto Musashi understood this stuff and so does the business and dating world. Why you can't understand it is totally beyond me as all of this stuff is nothing more than pure and simple common sense.

Do you have a degree in psychology? Do have any formal training... not scattered reading in one VERY misunderstood specialized discipline related to it?

 

[rdonovan1]

Do you have a degree in psychology? Do have any formal training... not scattered reading in one VERY misunderstood specialized discipline related to it?

No, I don't have a degree in psychology and I don't need one either. Saying that you need a degree in psychology in order to learn and to improve yourself is like saying that you have to have a medical degree just to eat and use the restroom.

If you can't trust yourself, then who can you trust?

 

[jks9199]

No, I don't have a degree in psychology and I don't need one either. Saying that you need a degree in psychology in order to learn and to improve yourself is like saying that you have to have a medical degree just to eat and use the restroom.

If you can't trust yourself, then who can you trust?

I think I see the heart of a lot of issues here.

Very, very few people can be successful autodidacts. Most of us, even the smartest and most able, need someone to lead us and guide us in our education if we want to develop something useful in learning. That's the job and goal of being a teacher. The Japanese term "sensei" is actually very instructive. A literal translation, I'm informed, is "one who has gone before." The job task of the sensei is to lead the students along the path... because, too often, left to ourselves, we'll absorb pieces without getting the supporting elements. In a civil trial I'm aware of which involved some very complex technical issues, the judge would listen to one witness, who was laying a foundation for the next, and so on down a chain until the key point was reached. Without the chain -- the last witness doesn't make sense. But there was a lot of overlap at times, and the judge would stop a witness short... then complain when he didn't understand the issue at the end. You're striking me as very likely being in much the same position...

 

[K-man]

I may not know everything and perhaps I am not even the brightest bulb in the barrel, but unlike a lot of other people that I have met both online and offline I at least take the time to go and find out that in which I do not know and to model myself after those people who truly know what they are talking about and/or who are doing something that I wish to do.


There are some things though that you will find in the media that are for real and that are properly researched. The trick is to know what is real and what is not and from what I have seen both online and offline there are a lot of people out there that have as of yet not been able to discern the fact from the fiction.

I don't know about the rest of anyone else, but I personally don't care as to what the media says because 9 times out of ten it is so damn negative that it is not even funny and that is why I generally don't pay attention to it. To me it is nothing but fluff and is really no better than toilet paper as most of that stuff is and was created for the sole purpose of making a sale and making someone rich. Most of it has nothing to do with reality and when people start to learn that and is able to start differentiating that from reality then the sooner that things like economy will improve for the better.

I must be a bit slower than most in following your logic but you really have now posted something that I can understand and agree with completely.

I am surprised that you are in any doubt as to the validity of your claim.
Modelling yourself on someone who has achieved a great deal is admirable, but there are no short cuts to get there most times. Chuck Norris has been a great martial artist and like you I would aspire to get to his level. Unfortunately passing years have ensured that that will never happen. However, I still train 4 times a week in the dojo and attend any seminars that catch my eye. Perhaps by training with some of the top people a little of their magic might rub off (wishful thinking

)!! But sitting on my **** in front of the video player wishing I could be another Bruce Lee is never going to work. Don't get me wrong, I have a library of SD DVDs. Earle Montaque, George Dillman, Russell Stutely, Geoff Thompson, Iain Abernathy, Richard Norton, Krav Maga, Systema etc etc. I will study one aspect of a dvd, a technique that I believe will work for me, then I take it to the dojo and train it until it can be tested at full speed under pressure. If it works, I may incorporate it in my teaching, but only if it is suited to a wide spectum of body types and abilities.
Your comment on the Newspapers says one of two things. Either the papers you read are not the quality ones or that you disagree with much of which is being written. In either case a reality check would be in order!! If most of the information in the papers has nothing to do with reality, in your opinion, it may be you with the problem, not the world press.

quote=rdonovan1
It doesn't really matter what martial art you study or know at all. What matters is as to how well you know it and as to how well you can apply it in a real world situation.

Sorry, you have now got me totally confused. I thought this was our side of the discussion!! :erg:

 

[rdonovan1]

I'm just curious as to how everyone might handle someone who is built like Andre the Giant and who is so doped up that he can't feel anything.

What techniques would you use to take down a guy that is built like that or worse and who is either so far out of their mind or so doped up that they can't feel anything and who really does not care about what happens to you.

As far as he is concerned you are a worm and he wants to separate your head from your body using any tactic or technique that he can do so.

 

[K-man]

I'm just curious as to how everyone might handle someone who is built like Andre the Giant and who is so doped up that he can't feel anything.

What techniques would you use to take down a guy that is built like that or worse and who is either so far out of their mind or so doped up that they can't feel anything and who really does not care about what happens to you.

As far as he is concerned you are a worm and he wants to separate your head from your body using any tactic or technique that he can do so.

I'd be first to throw the handful of sand (or pepper) in his eyes and run like hell.

 

[Omar B]

I'm just curious as to how everyone might handle someone who is built like Andre the Giant and who is so doped up that he can't feel anything.

What techniques would you use to take down a guy that is built like that or worse and who is either so far out of their mind or so doped up that they can't feel anything and who really does not care about what happens to you.

As far as he is concerned you are a worm and he wants to separate your head from your body using any tactic or technique that he can do so.

I see you are trying to make some clever point about karate not being able to handle every opponent here. But a person, large, small or minute still has the same anatomy and susceptible to the same things we all are. Step into a dojo sometime and learn from a real teacher, these books and DVDs have you all turned around. Size is most certainly not an issue if you know your art well.

 

[rdonovan1]

I see you are trying to make some clever point about karate not being able to handle every opponent here. But a person, large, small or minute still has the same anatomy and susceptible to the same things we all are. Step into a dojo sometime and learn from a real teacher, these books and DVDs have you all turned around. Size is most certainly not an issue if you know your art well.

Based upon what people have been saying here I think that would be difficult to do because so far all that I have heard are reasons as to why one should run away and to not fight at.

The basic message that I have been getting is one based upon fear.

Like everyone else I believe in trying to avoid a fight whenever possible, but unlike a lot of people I don't believe in running away from a fight.

If someone is truly intent on hurting you, then you have no choice but to fight back and that applies not just to physical attacks, but also to psychological, emotional, and verbal attacks and that is why it is best to learn as much as you can so that you can protect and defend yourself.

If a guy does not stand up for himself and assert himself then he is basically reducing himself and making himself look like a complete wus as he apparently does not have the courage to stand up for himself and to defend himself at all. That is the kind of mentallity that muggers and terrorists are looking for as their whole purpose is to produce fear in you so that you will not stand up to them and fight back at all.

 

[K-man]

Based upon what people have been saying here I think that would be difficult to do because so far all that I have heard are reasons as to why one should run away and to not fight at.

The basic message that I have been getting is one based upon fear.

Like everyone else I believe in trying to avoid a fight whenever possible, but unlike a lot of people I don't believe in running away from a fight.

If someone is truly intent on hurting you, then you have no choice but to fight back and that applies not just to physical attacks, but also to psychological, emotional, and verbal attacks and that is why it is best to learn as much as you can so that you can protect and defend yourself.

If a guy does not stand up for himself and assert himself then he is basically reducing himself and making himself look like a complete wus as he apparently does not have the courage to stand up for himself and to defend himself at all. That is the kind of mentallity that muggers and terrorists are looking for as their whole purpose is to produce fear in you so that you will not stand up to them and fight back at all.

OK. So we are now saying that we cannot escape.

The basic message that I have been getting is one based upon fear.

That is total crap! If you would rather fight than leave, in almost any scenario, then as I have pointed out in previous posts, your judgement is not to be relied on. If we cannot get away, as Omar said "a person, large, small or minute still has the same anatomy and is susceptible to the same things we all are." A nice strong sune geri to the side of the knee should take care of that end and provide a pre-emptive entry to take him down and provide the opportunity to leave. If for some reason we need to continue, striking to the throat next should finish it.

If a guy does not stand up for himself and assert himself then he is basically reducing himself and making himself look like a complete wus as he apparently does not have the courage to stand up for himself and to defend himself at all.

This is why you wouldn't be in my dojo. I would rather leave quietly, and have any of my friends leave, even if we did look like complete wus, rather than risk injury or even death, for a totally trivial reason. If someone wanted to pursue the matter, then that's the time to take action and that action probably would not involve defence.
One of the things you should have learnt, in the 14 odd years you claim to have studied karate, is the legal position. There are a number of LEOs on this forum and they must be cringing at the type of action you are proposing.

If someone is truly intent on hurting you, then you have no choice but to fight back and that applies not just to physical attacks, but also to psychological, emotional, and verbal attacks and that is why it is best to learn as much as you can so that you can protect and defend yourself.

This is the type of thinking that will get you into trouble with the law. You do have a choice. If someone is truly intent on hurting you you should try to get out of the situation as a first line. If you can't escape then it is permissable to use the least amount of force necessary to guarantee your safety. If it is a verbal attack you had better be sure that a physical attack was imminent, otherwise, if you hit first, and there are witnesses, it will be you before the court.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hey rdonovan1,

I feel sorry for you if you believe all of that as it shows to me that you have not done enough study of any of it nor have you actually gone out to find out that in which you do not know. All that you are doing is assuming instead of finding out the real truth and in that sense I really feel sorry for you.

Nope, sorry, not assumption on my part. We have police officers from every level, as well as Military personnel in our schools as Black Belts and Instructors, so the information comes from discussions with them. Which is as good as you can get without actually joining the army or police, which is not in my plans.

From what you have described here and from what I have seen from other people it is very obvious that a lot of people tend to have a 'Chicken Little' mentality and are unwilling to find out the real truth because they are afraid that if they knew the real truth then it would damage their pride and their sense of ego.

To many people, it would probably appear that you are discussing yourself here... Oh, and a "Chicken Little" mentality? If I remember my childhood well, that means we all run around being scared of non-existant events. You're the one being terrified of going to Mexico, terrorists, and inescapable gang assaults. Now Andre the Giant gets brought in? Very Chicken Little to me...

I may not know everything and perhaps I am not even the brightest bulb in the barrel, but unlike a lot of other people that I have met both online and offline I at least take the time to go and find out that in which I do not know and to model myself after those people who truly know what they are talking about and/or who are doing something that I wish to do.

Copying, parroting and modeling are different concepts. You appear to be stuck on the first two, my friend. That would back to the NLP. But get a coach, preferably Master Practitioner level, and that's gonna cost.

From a martial art perspective that would include people like Chuck Norris, Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi, Dan Inosanto, Bruce Lee and others like them and that is only from a martial art perspective that is not including what you can learn from the worlds of business and psychology as well as through personal experience.

I teach arts that originated from the teachings of Hatsumi Sensei, and have read pretty much every book on or by Bruce. But I have never met them (maybe Hatsumi one day, but doubtful dueto the organisation I am part of), so I would not say that I have learnt from them directly. They have been an influence, certainly, but that's it. And at best, that is all they have been for you as well. As for the business/psychology side, if you have had no direct contact, the same applies. If you haven't met Bandler, Grinder etc, then they haven't taught you. And Erikson is probably completely out of the question (although you appear to have focussed on the arrow rather than the target there).

Like most people I like watching movies relating to things like the martial arts, but unlike most people I generally do not believe everything that I see in the movies as I know that is all nothing but hollywood fiction created by writers and it is usually very poorly researched as well.

The questoin then would be why do your osts about martial arts (particularly the history) read like they are straight out of a movie?

There are some things though that you will find in the media that are for real and that are properly researched. The trick is to know what is real and what is not and from what I have seen both online and offline there are a lot of people out there that have as of yet not been able to discern the fact from the fiction.

It would appear that they haven't... according to you, and your take. The problem is that many people who have spent years actually researching this don't agree with you. And there may be a reason for this.

I don't know about the rest of anyone else, but I personally don't care as to what the media says because 9 times out of ten it is so damn negative that it is not even funny and that is why I generally don't pay attention to it. To me it is nothing but fluff and is really no better than toilet paper as most of that stuff is and was created for the sole purpose of making a sale and making someone rich. Most of it has nothing to do with reality and when people start to learn that and is able to start differentiating that from reality then the sooner that things like economy will improve for the better.

If you have not read the book by Chuck Norris called 'The power within' then I suggest that you do because a lot of what is talking about is true and whether people realize it or not both zen and NLP both have something in common and that is that they both seek to expand your mind and to help you overcome your fears.

You know, NLP is something I have been dealing with for a long time now, longer than you have from our PM conversation. I will respectfully ask now that you try to refrain from educating me on such subjects until you gain a bit more understanding yourself. The first paragraph here reads as a delusional mind frame, only I can see it, no-one else can kind of thing. The second then contradicts the first. Media is all wrong, and should be ignored, but read this book (media) because it is real and true.

And dude, my fears, and the expansion of my mind, are not something you really need to worry about. Really. Got that under control.

Fear is the greatest enemy that you can have and if you allow that you control you and to get the better of you then you will always lose no matter what.

Chuck Norris said it best that when you learn to conquer yourself then anything is possible and Bruce Lee proved that time and time again. Bruce did not care about whether he was popular or not. All that he cared about what the truth and that is something that people would do well to learn about and to implement in their lives as Bruce knew like Chuck Norris that you are your worst enemy and that you need to learn how to get out of your own way if you are going to improve and to be good at anything in life.

This is what I meant about parroting. Bruce wanted success as an actor first and foremost. He started as a child actor, in a show business family in Hong Kong. He definately wanted to be popular! That's his reality, you seem to want to read something different, that's cool, but it doesn't make it real.

If someone here wants to challenge the wisdom of people like Bruce Lee then go and dig him up, bring him back to life and challenge him to a fight. Somehow though I seriously doubt that is possible and even if it were possible I know that very few people on this forum would be able to beat Bruce Lee in a real fight.

Based on his movies, I guess... But seriously, you are honestly suggesing we "dig him up and bring him back to life"? And you "seriously doubt that it is possible"? Dude, how far into your delusions are you?

Bruce like the ninja knew that each and every style had it's strengths and it's weaknesses and that why Bruce trained as much as he did trying to learn from every source that he could as he wanted to develop himself and to prove to himself that he could do anything that he put his mind to no matter what other people said or thought about him. For him nothing was impossible.

Okay, that is completely wrong. Bruce was interested in finding his own way. Ninjutsu is a singular system, not a collection of bits and pieces from other arts. Not the same thing at all. That just shows that you have no real knowledge or understanding of what the ninja were/are, or what ninjutsu was/is.

Finally, you may want to choose a better target than someone who spent time when you go here attempting to help you, as you are not coming off well. Those here who have studied, trained, learnt, traveled, bled, and sweat this life have pointed out that you have a long way to go. A classic strategy of Sun Tzu was to choose your battles and your battleground, you may have missed that one.

 

[Bruno@MT]

If a guy does not stand up for himself and assert himself then he is basically reducing himself and making himself look like a complete wus as he apparently does not have the courage to stand up for himself and to defend himself at all.

Ooh. ooh.

Yep that's me. Whenever it looks like there is going to trouble, or whenever people make me uncomfortable, I quietly leave. The least likely thing I am to do is to 'assert myself' aka being a dumbass. And so far, that strategy has worked and I have never been in a fight outside of MA context. It doesn't happen often, but if it does I have no problem swallowing my pride.

Fighting is a good solution if there is no other option left. Pride and ego are among the stupidest, most dumbass reasons to fight. Survival is all that matters. If there is no other option left, I'll fight for my life and we'll have to see if I survive. However, if I can survive by walking away, I am more than happy enough to take that option instead. I prefer to be the wuss who got home to continue being a father and husband.

 

[Bruno@MT]

If someone here wants to challenge the wisdom of people like Bruce Lee then go and dig him up, bring him back to life and challenge him to a fight. Somehow though I seriously doubt that is possible and even if it were possible I know that very few people on this forum would be able to beat Bruce Lee in a real fight.

Dunno. After all that time underground he is bound to be a bit rusty and out of practise.

 

[Grenadier]

No, I don't have a degree in psychology and I don't need one either. Saying that you need a degree in psychology in order to learn and to improve yourself is like saying that you have to have a medical degree just to eat and use the restroom.

You are comparing apples and oranges here.

If someone wanted to practice psychology in a professional sense, then it only makes sense that he should have a degree in such. If someone wants to practice medicine in a professional sense, then he should have a medical degree from some accredited institution, else no board is going to certify him.

The same holds true for martial arts. I would hope that you would at least have a significant level of formal training, in order to be making such statements, since there is nothing in this world that will replace formal training under a competent instructor.

Now, maybe for someone with an exceptionally high IQ, and a natural gift for the martial arts, perhaps he can "figure it out" on his own, or with videos to help, but let's face it; very few of us (using "us" to define the whole population of martial artists) are capable of such learning. Even if we were, we would still learn much more quickly by having live instruction.

 

[Omar B]

Based upon what people have been saying here I think that would be difficult to do because so far all that I have heard are reasons as to why one should run away and to not fight at.

The basic message that I have been getting is one based upon fear.

Like everyone else I believe in trying to avoid a fight whenever possible, but unlike a lot of people I don't believe in running away from a fight.

If someone is truly intent on hurting you, then you have no choice but to fight back and that applies not just to physical attacks, but also to psychological, emotional, and verbal attacks and that is why it is best to learn as much as you can so that you can protect and defend yourself.

If a guy does not stand up for himself and assert himself then he is basically reducing himself and making himself look like a complete wus as he apparently does not have the courage to stand up for himself and to defend himself at all. That is the kind of mentallity that muggers and terrorists are looking for as their whole purpose is to produce fear in you so that you will not stand up to them and fight back at all.

Why do you think leaving the situation would be difficult to do? Can't walk?

If someone is truly intent on hurting you, then you have no choice but to fight back and that applies not just to physical attacks, but also to psychological, emotional, and verbal attacks and that is why it is best to learn as much as you can so that you can protect and defend yourself. This comes off as quite childish and dangerous. Are we to go out there and beat up everyone who does not like us, speaks ill of us or has a low opinion of us? If that were true we would be locked in never ending battle. If it does not attack your physical person it should be like water off a duck's back, you've gotta be made of sterner stuff and be able to not fly off in an emotional rage anytime someone calls your an a-hole. This is a very teenaged attitude thinking what someone else says about you should affect you to that level and shows a deep flaw in character if you are an adult or immaturity if you are still young. I'm a journalist and a New Yorker, jeeze, if I were to live by your rules I would live with hands constantly damp from blood.

If a guy does not stand up for himself and assert himself then he is basically reducing himself and making himself look like a complete wus as he apparently does not have the courage to stand up for himself and to defend himself at all. That is the kind of mentallity that muggers and terrorists are looking for as their whole purpose is to produce fear in you so that you will not stand up to them and fight back at all. Actually, you are the one coming across as if he's wuss and ruled by fear if you need to back respond to every ill word, look or thought with violence. This is the same mentality that betrays a deep seated weakness and insecurity that will get you robbed.

As I've said before, your every post seems to betray your utter lack of knowledge on the subject of karate and martial arts as a whole. Digesting magazines, DVDs and websites and being able to babbit quotes don't make you knowledgable, they make you a parrot.

 

[celtic_crippler]

I'm just curious as to how everyone might handle someone who is built like Andre the Giant and who is so doped up that he can't feel anything.

What techniques would you use to take down a guy that is built like that or worse and who is either so far out of their mind or so doped up that they can't feel anything and who really does not care about what happens to you.

As far as he is concerned you are a worm and he wants to separate your head from your body using any tactic or technique that he can do so.

Are we assuming that I don't have my gun on me for some reason?

Break his collar bone. Shatter his knee. Hit him in the throat. Doesn't matter if he feels pain from it or not, physiologically he will no longer be a threat.