What Do You Think Are The Most Effective Karate Styles?

[MAfreak]

I've seen others, such as Ian Abernathy, make the claim that Okinawan Karate included ground fighting, but I have never seen a shred of evidence. Most of the long time traditional Karate practitioners that I know of completely discount that claim. If you have evidence of such a thing, I would be interested in seeing it.

google is your friend, but anyway some examples:

and

and
Google Übersetzer

 

[Charlemagne]

google is your friend, but anyway some examples:

Thanks. I had seen some videos like that before. When I said "evidence" perhaps I wasn't clear. What I was getting at was evidence of a kind that can be documented via the historical method, or something approximating that. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Tez3]

Karate Grappling: Did It Really Exist? | World Combat Association.com
Tegumi - Karate's Forgotten Range | Iain Abernethy
Tegumi – Okinawan Grappling and Wrestling
Karate on the Ground | Iain Abernethy
Tegumi - Karate's Forgotten Range | Iain Abernethy

"When they spoke later Kano Sensei asked, "Are there ne-waza (ground fighting techniques) in karate?" Miyagi explained that there are, along with nage waza (throwing techniques), shime waza (choking techniques) and gyaku waza (joint locking techniques). He then demonstrated some examples explaining the continual importance of harmonizing and focusing the breath. Kano was surprised to find that karate was much more than just punching and kicking techniques, but that it encompassed the depth of a complete martial art." – The History of Karate, Okinawan Goju-Ryu, Morio Hiagonna

 

[MAfreak]

the googe translated german website at the end is from a school in morio higonnas federation.
what is historical? karate is not even 100 years old.

 

[Tired_Yeti]

I've read Ian's article. And yes, he is claiming it. Others discount this claim. It is not an insult for me to say that. He might be right, and he might be wrong. I honestly do not know. Just because he claims it does not mean he is correct either.

In addition, I didn't sneer. I invited the person to whom I responded to share any evidence he might have, and stated honestly that I would be interested in seeing it. I was hopeful that the person I responded to might have something that I wasn't aware of.

There may be no grappling in SPORT karate (Taekwondo, etc.) but Iain Abernethy, for example, studies traditional karate. Since many, if not most, fights go to the ground--and in light of the fact that originally karate was for fighting and self-defense in real-world situations, it makes absolutely no sense that there would be no grappling in karate. The past masters would have known that grappling is a necessary skill set to survive a real fight. Grappling can be seen in some of the katas also.

The idea that there is no grappling in karate makes no sense at all--none.


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[Tez3]

There may be no grappling in SPORT karate (Taekwondo, etc.) but Iain Abernethy, for example, studies traditional karate. Since many, if not most, fights go to the ground--and in light of the fact that originally karate was for fighting and self-defense in real-world situations, it makes absolutely no sense that there would be no grappling in karate. The past masters would have known that grappling is a necessary skill set to survive a real fight. Grappling can be seen in some of the katas also.

The idea that there is no grappling in karate makes no sense at all--none.


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Agreed and kudos to you for spelling Iain's name right lol! Wish I could like and agree with your post!

 

[senseiblackbelt]

Kyokushin-kai and it's offshoots (esp. shidokan) by far. The full contact tournaments are a huge advantage, though they dissalow punches to the face.

Shotokan doesn't hold full contact tourneys.

what are tourneys....?

 

[Tez3]

what are tourneys....?

Competitions/tournaments. It's quite an old fashioned word, not used a lot these days.

 

[Charlemagne]

There may be no grappling in SPORT karate (Taekwondo, etc.) but Iain Abernethy, for example, studies traditional karate. Since many, if not most, fights go to the ground--and in light of the fact that originally karate was for fighting and self-defense in real-world situations, it makes absolutely no sense that there would be no grappling in karate. The past masters would have known that grappling is a necessary skill set to survive a real fight. Grappling can be seen in some of the katas also.

The idea that there is no grappling in karate makes no sense at all--none.


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I don't disagree. I have no problem with the idea of throws, joint locks, and takedowns, etc. in Karate. It's the idea of ground fighting I find suspect.

 

[Charlemagne]

the googe translated german website at the end is from a school in morio higonnas federation.
what is historical? karate is not even 100 years old.

Then one would think it would be easy to show via actual texts/manuals rather than a reinterpretation of kata.

 

[Tez3]

Then one would think it would be easy to show via actual texts/manuals rather than a reinterpretation of kata.

LOL, well if you hadn't taken umbrage and put me on ignore you would have seen the many texts and manuals I've already posted up. They are very readily available, can be found easily ...for those who want to read them of course. If your mind is already made up, well, no amount of writing is going to prove anything to you.

 

[Paul_D]

Again, you are not reading what I said, you are reading what you want to see and projecting that on me. I never implied that he did not tell the truth.

I beg to differ; you said and I quote "Most of the long time traditional Karate practitioners that I know of completely discount that claim." That is, however you want to dress it up, an implciaiton that he is incorrect, and therefore lying.

 

[Buka]

Effective? I don't know, probably comes down to the dojo rather than the style.

 

[Red Sun]

I'm quite fond of Isshin Ryu and Goju Ryu. Now, if i could just live near a dojo~

 

[Mdwilson]

Kassaki -Kai I believe is one that is trying to keep it real.

 

[Tez3]

Kassaki -Kai I believe is one that is trying to keep it real.

Ah, is that the one with all the videos, books and seminars for sale?

 

[Charlemagne]

I beg to differ; you said and I quote "Most of the long time traditional Karate practitioners that I know of completely discount that claim." That is, however you want to dress it up, an implciaiton that he is incorrect, and therefore lying.

Uh, no. One can easily be incorrect and be sincere at the same time. In fact, it happens all the time. Being wrong does not imply being a liar.

 

[Sojobo]

Ah, is that the one with all the videos, books and seminars for sale?

It's Vince Morris's group.

 

[Tez3]

It's Vince Morris's group.

it's Kissaki Kai and their site is full of ads for their videos, books, seminars and on line learning stuff. for someone who has supposedly done so much in the UK it seems strange I've never heard of him.

 

[Mdwilson]

it's Kissaki Kai and their site is full of ads for their videos, books, seminars and on line learning stuff. for someone who has supposedly done so much in the UK it seems strange I've never heard of him.

He's been around a while. More popular in Europe. There's a Shotokan / Kassakai Kai dojo in Lake Havasu City I've been thinking about training with.