Why is this done?

[lklawson]

Not surprising since Bjj has roots from Judo exponents who often fought/cross trained with catch wrestlers, and Lutre Livre which also has some catch aspects.

Bjj practitioners have never made an effort to hide those roots.

Could be. OTOH, I think it highly likely that elements of parallel evolution may be at work. The human body pretty much breaks exactly the same way as it did 10,000 years ago, regardless of whether or not the eyes are round or slant, or the skin is dark or Lilly white.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[drop bear]

Could be. OTOH, I think it highly likely that elements of parallel evolution may be at work. The human body pretty much breaks exactly the same way as it did 10,000 years ago, regardless of whether or not the eyes are round or slant, or the skin is dark or Lilly white.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I don't know if that argument necessarily works.

The human body works the same. But our understanding of it changes.

Old timey medicine would be a good example.

 

[Hanzou]

Could be. OTOH, I think it highly likely that elements of parallel evolution may be at work. The human body pretty much breaks exactly the same way as it did 10,000 years ago, regardless of whether or not the eyes are round or slant, or the skin is dark or Lilly white.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Yeah, no. Maeda was a traveling fighter who did tons of exhibition matches, and many of those matches were against catch wrestlers. On top of that, Judo had influences from catch wrestling as well. Then of course there were decades of interaction with Luta Livre which is essentially Brazilian catch wrestling.

Here's the point; Bjj never hid the fact that their art has its roots in Judo and wrestling. Here we have a group of Ninjas saying that they have Bjj inside their ancient ninja kata. There's a big difference there.

 

[lklawson]

I don't know if that argument necessarily works.

The human body works the same. But our understanding of it changes.

Old timey medicine would be a good example.

We're talking joint locks, not curing cancer.

 

[drop bear]

We're talking joint locks, not curing cancer.

Same thing really.

We have a lot better understanding now as to how things work. And there is a lot more imput from experts.

 

[lklawson]

Same thing really.

Good to know. I'll go tell the oncologists that you said they can cure cancer with a kote gaeshi. ...and other stupid things you like to say. You can stop now, or would you prefer to keep saying silly things?

 

[drop bear]

Good to know. I'll go tell the oncologists that you said they can cure cancer with a kote gaeshi. ...and other stupid things you like to say. You can stop now, or would you prefer to keep saying silly things?

The point is you could. But in modern times with better understanding of the human body they won't believe you.

Just like martial arts.

 

[lklawson]

The point is you could. But in modern times with better understanding of the human body they won't believe you.

Just like martial arts.

So you're going with option B.

 

[Graywalker]

That's doesn't logically follow, but that's irrelevant. You said "you seem to think some Karate doesn't practice ground escapes and grappling, and that is simply a false assumption". I was simply saying that it's true that some Karate doesn't, so it wouldn't have been a false assumption. Perhaps what you meant was "you seem to think that no Karate practices ground escapes"?

Good Lord, we have a grammer cop...there, they're, their...it's ok buddy, "a big deal it isn't."

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Good Lord, we have a grammer cop...there, they're, their...it's ok buddy, "a big deal it isn't."

So, you did mean that other thing. If you think your bad communication makes me a “grammar cop”, cool.

 

[Graywalker]

So, you did mean that other thing. If you think your bad communication makes me a “grammar cop”, cool.

Chill mod, it was a joke.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Chill mod, it was a joke.

Not a very funny one, apparently.

 

[Graywalker]

Not a very funny one, apparently.

Ah overly sensitive, I will remember that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ah overly sensitive, I will remember that.

Interesting take. Go with that.

 

[Graywalker]

Interesting take. Go with that.

Most definitely will. Everytime.

 

[Fudo]

I saw the introduction and the video lesson, I did not see the Sensei mention this is from any of the Ninpo ryu-ha waza specifically, he does mention they take some of the waza and apply modern concepts which would be known as Goshinjutsu(self defense which is a very general term) and once a waza is applied that way it no longer is considered part of the original curriculum offically.
For all we know since this is a snippet of a video he may have said I learned this in my BJJ class off camera.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I have no issue with TMAs incorporating Bjj into their curriculums, but they should really give credit where credit is due.

This kind of things happened all the time. The Japanese Jiu-Jitsu came from the Chinese Shuai-Chiao. But some Japanese won't admit that

Ming Dynasty (1277 ~ 1367)

Chen Yuan-Ping is credited for bringing Shuai-Chiao to Japan. His intimate knowledge of Shuai-Chiao's joint locks, controls, takedowns, and throws formed the basis of what became Jiu-Jitsu, which later evolved into Judo and Aikido.

Origins of KODOKAN JUDO | Judo Info

This is not necessarily to deny that Chen Yuan-Ping introduced chinese boxing, 'kempo', to japan. Indeed, it is more or less reasonable to ...

 

[Fudo]

This kind of things happened all the time. The Japanese Jiu-Jitsu came from the Chinese Shuai-Chiao. But Japanese won't admit that

Ming Dynasty (1277 ~ 1367)

Chen Yuan-Ping is credited for bringing Shuai-Chiao to Japan. His intimate knowledge of Shuai-Chiao's joint locks, controls, takedowns, and throws formed the basis of what became Jiu-Jitsu, which later evolved into Judo and Aikido.

Origins of KODOKAN JUDO | Judo Info

... This is not necessarily to deny that Chen Yuan-Ping introduced chinese boxing, 'kempo', to japan. Indeed, it is more or less reasonable to ...

Origins of KODOKAN JUDO | Judo Info

You left out this part:
A word may be added about the legend that jujitsu was originally introduced to japan by a chinese named Chen Yuan-ping, approximately in 1644-48, or in 1627 according to the ‘Kokushoji’ document. However, a large amount of authentic evidence disproves this.
Origins of KODOKAN JUDO | Judo Info

We know that Katori Shinto ryu around 1400's has Jujutsu, Takenouchi ryu 1532, Yoshin ryu 1632, among many others before 1644. Many ryuha(schools) had a very small amount of jujutsu mostly just Gyaku(reversals) or something very crude as jujutsu was not a dominate art for the samurai compared to spear, sword and bow and arrow.
Many martial artist did sumo which had a big impact on jujutsu as well has the sword, just looking at Yagyu Shinkage ryu footwork one can see the applications for jujutsu in the approach. Shuai Jiao may have had some influence on jujutsu but jujutsu became its own thing due to the battle field Samurai were dealing with, it is similar to the Katana and how originally Japanese used a straight sword with a Chinese influence but dropped it in favor to the modern Katana forging.

 

[Hanzou]

I saw the introduction and the video lesson, I did not see the Sensei mention this is from any of the Ninpo ryu-ha waza specifically, he does mention they take some of the waza and apply modern concepts which would be known as Goshinjutsu(self defense which is a very general term) and once a waza is applied that way it no longer is considered part of the original curriculum offically.
For all we know since this is a snippet of a video he may have said I learned this in my BJJ class off camera.

The implication is clear though, since they didn’t mention where they actually got those techniques, and mention adapted kata instead of just saying they learned it from Bjj. They could have easily just said that in modern times they adapt many modern disciplines, and gave credit where credit is due.

 

[Hanzou]

This kind of things happened all the time. The Japanese Jiu-Jitsu came from the Chinese Shuai-Chiao. But some Japanese won't admit that

Ming Dynasty (1277 ~ 1367)

Chen Yuan-Ping is credited for bringing Shuai-Chiao to Japan. His intimate knowledge of Shuai-Chiao's joint locks, controls, takedowns, and throws formed the basis of what became Jiu-Jitsu, which later evolved into Judo and Aikido.

Origins of KODOKAN JUDO | Judo Info

This is not necessarily to deny that Chen Yuan-Ping introduced chinese boxing, 'kempo', to japan. Indeed, it is more or less reasonable to ...

This really isn't the same thing. You're talking about the Japanese denying something that happened hundreds of years ago, and as Fudo pointed out, there's some discrepancy in when the Japanese developed unarmed Jujutsu techniques. We know that the Samurai existed in Japan in the 12th century, and that predates the Ming Dynasty by almost a century.

In any case, I'm talking about a martial art school that is clearly using Bjj techniques and claiming it comes from their kata instead of a sport MA which they clearly malign.