Why does MMA count as an own martial art now ?

[Ironbear24]

Mark hunt. Matt mitroine. Jared rosholt. Chance Williams. Soichi Nishida (maybe?).

 

[Hanzou]

Mark hunt. Matt mitroine. Jared rosholt. Chance Williams. Soichi Nishida (maybe?).

LoL! I stand corrected.

 

[Steve]

Mark hunt. Matt mitroine. Jared rosholt. Chance Williams. Soichi Nishida (maybe?).

They've all defended or executed submissions on the ground, soooooo... They have all trained bjj. It's simple.

 

[drop bear]

They've all defended or executed submissions on the ground, soooooo... They have all trained bjj. It's simple.

No. They could have done submission wrestling. Big in Australian mma.

But yeah. Ground submissions is bjj is kind of limited.

 

[Steve]

No. They could have done submission wrestling. Big in Australian mma.

But yeah. Ground submissions is bjj is kind of limited.

Yeah, but that doesn't compute. Submission wrestling is just bjj.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, but that doesn't compute. Submission wrestling is just bjj.

But bjj is just judo

 

[Steve]

But bjj is just judo

Judo wishes...

 

[drop bear]

Judo wishes...

If you are ever in Australia i will put you in touch with rob gruifrida who is one of the best submission guys in the game.

You couldnt squeeze that guy into a gi.

 

[Ironbear24]

Judo wishes...

Bjj came from Judo. Just ask hanzou he will tell you. Plus bjj is not the only style with ground submissions. Hell even in kenpo which is a more stand up style we learned a couple. Wrestling has many and Judo has them too.

 

[Skullpunch]

Mark hunt. Matt mitroine. Jared rosholt. Chance Williams. Soichi Nishida (maybe?).

Not sure about the others but I know Mark Hunt trains with ATT and Mitrione trains with the Blackzilians. Both camps do extensive bjj training.

 

[Ironbear24]

Not sure about the others but I know Mark Hunt trains with ATT and Mitrione trains with the Blackzilians. Both camps do extensive bjj training.

My point is that there can be successful fighters without it. Training against it is also different than training in it.

 

[Skullpunch]

My point is that there can be successful fighters without it. Training against it is also different than training in it.

If you train against high level bjj guys then you're not going without it. Most submission and position escapes used in MMA are bjj moves. Using a style's techniques defensively means you are using the style. Nobody debates against the fact that a sprawl is a wrestling move, or that slipping a jab is a boxing move.

Besides, it's not exactly unheard of for Hunt to use his jits offensively. Remember the armbar from the mount attempt against Rothwell?

 

[Ironbear24]

If you train against high level bjj guys then you're not going without it. Most submission and position escapes used in MMA are bjj moves. Using a style's techniques defensively means you are using the style. Nobody debates against the fact that a sprawl is a wrestling move, or that slipping a jab is a boxing move.

Besides, it's not exactly unheard of for Hunt to use his jits offensively. Remember the armbar from the mount attempt against Rothwell?

So if I am being taught how to break a full Nelson hold in a kenpo dojo. Does that mean I am training in wrestling? Or how about if I am taught how to use my opponents spear tackle takedown to my own advantage? Does that mean I train in bjj?

Many other martial arts are trained to deal with these situations and not exclusively bjj.

 

[Tez3]

So if I am being taught how to break a full Nelson hold in a kenpo dojo. Does that mean I am training in wrestling? Or how about if I am taught how to use my opponents spear tackle takedown to my own advantage? Does that mean I train in bjj?

Many other martial arts are trained to deal with these situations and not exclusively bjj.

You are training martial arts.

 

[Skullpunch]

So if I am being taught how to break a full Nelson hold in a kenpo dojo. Does that mean I am training in wrestling?

To make this comparison accurate to the kind of training that goes on at a place like ATT (or really any other high level camp for that matter) you would have to re-word it to "So if I'm being taught how to break a full Nelson hold in a kenpo dojo by competitive wrestlers and wrestling coaches, and I'm training it against wrestlers on the reg, does that mean I am training in wrestling?" And the answer to that would be yes, absolutely.

 

[Ironbear24]

To make this comparison accurate to the kind of training that goes on at a place like ATT (or really any other high level camp for that matter) you would have to re-word it to "So if I'm being taught how to break a full Nelson hold in a kenpo dojo by competitive wrestlers and wrestling coaches, and I'm training it against wrestlers on the reg, does that mean I am training in wrestling?" And the answer to that would be yes, absolutely.

You would be training how to deal with wrestling.

 

[Steve]

So if I am being taught how to break a full Nelson hold in a kenpo dojo. Does that mean I am training in wrestling? Or how about if I am taught how to use my opponents spear tackle takedown to my own advantage? Does that mean I train in bjj?

Many other martial arts are trained to deal with these situations and not exclusively bjj.

If it's grappling and it works, it's bjj.

 

[Hanzou]

Bjj came from Judo. Just ask hanzou he will tell you. Plus bjj is not the only style with ground submissions. Hell even in kenpo which is a more stand up style we learned a couple. Wrestling has many and Judo has them too.

While Bjj came from Judo there's some pretty significant differences between the two. Most of those differences stem from a fundamental difference in purpose and philosophy. Judo is heavily geared towards sport while Bjj is heavily geared towards street fighting and self defense. In essence, you could argue that Bjj is what Judo would have turned into if Kano was more interested in beating the crap out of people than creating a recreational sport.

And while Bjj isn't the only style that contains ground submissions, it's arguably the most comprehensive in that department. Further, given its eclectic nature there's new subs being "discovered" all the time.

 

[Skullpunch]

You would be training how to deal with wrestling.

Yes, that you would. You would also be doing so by training wrestling. There's no need to try and force a dichotomy here where one does not exist.

 

[Ironbear24]

If it's grappling and it works, it's bjj.

Riiight because shoot wrestling, sambo, ninjutsu and Judo have no grappling that works. Its very clear I'm talking to biased people here.