Why does it take years to learn self-defense when a fight is less than 12 seconds?

[Kenpodoc]

With all do respect KenpoDoc, that is the point. The question was does a person have to train for years to learn how to defend themselves? The answer is no. My point was that it may take years to learn a particular system, but learning a system does not neccassarily equate to learning how to fight. An effective fighting system should cover 3 components, mindset, tactics and skills. Most systems concentrate on skills, touch a little on mindset, and completely ignore tactics.

You bring up Mike Tyson, as a person who is more effective fighter after he trained. I don't think the original question was aimed at a person like Mike Tyson. Tyson was a street kid, who already had a natural tenacity and a tendency toward violence. I'm sure Iron Mike had little trouble defending himself, without formal boxing training.

I think that you missed my point. Not everyone is a skilled ruthless fighter but even a ruthless physically skilled fighter can benefit from prolonged training. An incoordinated pansy like me can benefit dramatically. Not all schools teach as well as others, this varies by system and teacher. Self defence and ring fighting are very different, skills are similar but mindset and tactics vary dramatically. Dueling (empty handed or with a weapon) in a bar is very different from street assault.

The other consideration is failing physical skills as we grow older. An unskilled 20 year old can bluff and blast their way through things far easier with less training than an out of shape 50 year old. Never the less 8 years of traing with Mr. Hatfield has made me a more dangerous person than I was 30 years ago.

Finally, it is a logical fallacy to believe that the length of an act has anything to do with the time it takes to do the act well. It is the complexity of the act that determines the time taken to respond well and appropriately.

Jeff

 

[Kenpodoc]

Yup!
And...don't forget, the greatest change that the training in the military gives isn't the gain in skill...though that's there, it's the FORGING of the metal deep within, digging down deep to pull up the physical and mental fortitude to keep going and go for MORE when everything within you is screaming to stop.
The inner strength that that type of training gives is one of the biggest reasons for a well trained Military...because THEN, once they've got that fine-tuned STEEL in their heart, they can take that strength, discipline, perseverance and dedication to whatever task they've got to learn next. THEN the skills come in and are heightened, reenforced and built upon.

The two different forms of training really can't be compared THAT much, though perhaps there are some similarities....but for this argument, it's apples and oranges.

Your Brother
John

Good point. Also remember that raw recruits new to the field are far less skilled than say , experienced special forces.

Jeff

 

[Bigshadow]

In the couple months training army recruits get they put in more hours them most martial arts students do in a couple years.

And.... They barely have what it takes to deal with hand to hand. They are taught to rely on their rifle. (Special forces an exception to the rule).

 

[Flying Crane]

EDIT: Geez, I forgot to write this: In fact, in my classes, the 100 meter sprint was something to train in alongside techniques. Being faster certainly has its advantages in a self defense situation.

I have used that skill on more than one occasion. Sometimes it went longer than 100 meters...

 

[Grenadier]

I'm going to put this in another perspective.

The way you perform when push comes to shove, is probably going to default to the level that you have consistently trained. Taking years to train to perform at a higher level on a consistent basis is the only way to accomplish this, unless you are some sort of phenomal person, which the overwhelming majority of people (including almost all of us here on this board) are not.

The neophyte might panic, and forget the training that he has done in the short period of time, whereas the more experienced will have a better chance of keeping a cool head.

 

[Adept]

It DOESN"T take "Years" to learn it.

It takes time and effort to get GOOD at it.



Your Brother
John

If it takes more than a month of dedicated training to get GOOD at self defense, then there are some serious issues in the training methodology. Practical self defense should be simple and intuitive.

The thing is, if you still want to be able to defend yourself in five years, you need to keep training for five years.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I think the best response i've heard about why it takes years to learn 'self-defense' is 'defense against what?'. You can learn how to defend yourself 'better' today. However, it doesn't automatically mean you're prepared to defend against 'any' threat out there. There are some threats you'll spend years preparing for. Some threats you'll never be prepared for.

 

[stone_dragone]

It doesn't take years to learn how to defend yourself. A person can be trained to defend themselves in a short amount of time. It may take years to learn a system. But learning a system and learning how to defend yourself or fight, may not be the same thing.

There are plenty of black belts walking around who couldn't fight there way out of a paper bag, but they know a system.

I think Mike (and several others with the same angle) are spot on. Learning how to defend yourself is a fairly simple task. Learning how to fight is even simpler. I could teach a monkey how to fight in a week. I never said "fight well," by the way. It's the art, the history and the philosophy that makes us martial artists and takes the time and makes it worth it. Simply because one can fight or defend themselves doesnt make them a better person... just safer (or not)! My two bits...

 

[Kenpodoc]

If it takes more than a month of dedicated training to get GOOD at self defense, then there are some serious issues in the training methodology. Practical self defense should be simple and intuitive.

The thing is, if you still want to be able to defend yourself in five years, you need to keep training for five years.

It depends on your definition of GOOD.

Jeff

 

[Brother John]

It depends on your definition of GOOD.

Jeff

Exactly.

Many settle for less.
MOSTsettle for mediocrity.

Your Brother
John

 

[Jagermeister]

To answer the original question, it's kind of like working all year long so you can get your 2 weeks off, then bam, the vacation's over in the blink of an eye. "Well, there's always next year." Life sucks, doesn't it?

 

[still learning]

Hello, If you had to teach someone to fight back, but does not have the time to train for years or don't want too.

What can you teach them to learn to fight back and survive? In a day, or week?

My daughter does not want to train in the martial arts. Do you think she can learn a few things in a short time to fight back and survive?

Can the average person learn this too? and survive? One day training or in week?

I guess this is what I was trying to say.............Aloha

Thank-you for sharing your thoughts!!!

 

[Bigshadow]

My daughter does not want to train in the martial arts. Do you think she can learn a few things in a short time to fight back and survive?

I think real issue is you have train something often enough and long enough so that it becomes a natural reaction. Maybe in a couple of weeks with couple of hours of training each day, she might be able to respond with a very limited set of responses. But without constant training, those responses will fade away. I believe training must be long enough so that things are done without conscious thought. If you have to stop and think, your dead.

So in essence, yes, maybe, but it is all relative.

 

[Cryozombie]

Still Learning,

You can learn "self defense" in the time it takes to learn to pick up a handgun, insert ammo, and turn the saftey off.

Is it the most appropriate response in ALL situations?

Really, its one tool in a toolbox. I could prolly build a house with nothing but a hammer, but it would take a long time, and be a lousy house.

Studying an art for years, it fills your toolbox up with a Saw, Some Planes, a level, and gives you somthing to use BESIDES the hammer.

Its all about CHOICES. I could take an afternoon course in self defense that teaches me to mace someone, then kick their groin, and run. Effective self defense, but very limited. Id prefer to have more choices than that, especially since you cant always count on being attacked by ONE GUY with no groin protection while you are carrying your mace.

As far as your daughter, Theres always the Bobby Hill method. Scream "Thats My Purse!" and kick him in the jimmies.

 

[Bigshadow]

As far as your daughter, Theres always the Bobby Hill method. Scream "Thats My Purse!" and kick him in the jimmies.

Great episode! Darn, I wish I could have thought of that... Good technique he had!

 

[CuongNhuka]

every one who wishes to learn to fight (like guys with no Martial arts ex.) learns it over years. we learn it threw techinque & kata. they learn it from people who are older, and being in fights. either way, they rarely train for a little bit before they can give anybody even a hard time. let alone win.and part of the reason is it takes alot of time to learn a lot of what works, part of it is to build up techinical strength and skill, and the right attitude. that is why a lot of people get frustrated when what they learn in the dojo or what have you doesn't work right away.
i've seen that happen alot. and then they see me in a fight (which happens once a year if i'm lucky), and they don't get how i win.i've been doing martial arts in some form for almost my whole life. of course i'm good at it. fighting is anouther matter.
but i'm ranting

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John